Date   
Newbie question

"carter_hutchinson" <zydecos@...>
 

I missed this at Dayton. Can I use this with my analog HT and connect to the dstar network, or do I need an Icom dstar HT?
73
K9kjn

Re: Newbie question

"neil_g7eby" <g7eby.neil@...>
 

It may be possible, but it is frowned upon to do so, except on a few dedicated reflectors which have Echolink (analog) connectivity.

Some XRF reflectors do indeed have this and use an 'Analog Bridge' to go from an analog port number to a D-Star reflector.

If you want to do this on a permanent basis, I suggest you ask the FreeStar team or Barry, G8SAU, as they have live reflectors doing this.

However, for a more practical analog to echolink bridge/gateway, I'm sure this radio could be adopted by those interested, when the AMBE board is available.

Neil G7EBY.

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "carter_hutchinson" <zydecos@...> wrote:

I missed this at Dayton. Can I use this with my analog HT and connect to the dstar network, or do I need an Icom dstar HT?
73
K9kjn

Re: Newbie question

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

Hi Hutch,

Short answer "no" ...

Longer answer.  

You can use the UDR56K-4 in a few configurations to get on the D-STAR network.

There will be an application that turns the UDR56K-4 into a 70cm D-STAR radio that you can use to talk D-STAR on simplex or through repeaters and half-duplex gateways (hotspots).

There is an application in the G4KLX suite that will need to be adapted to use the AMBE daughter card, but allows you to appear as a user on a virtual repeater talking into the D-STAR network.  (This application already works on the UDR56K-4 using a DVDongle for the AMBE chip).

If you have a D-STAR radio, the UDR56K-4 can act as a half-duplex gateway into the D-STAR network.  A workbench version using an external radio and modem has been running for a couple of months, but will become an application to use the UDR56K-4 built-in radio and modem.

There is no application that puts an analog HT on D-STAR.   Fundamental to D-STAR's digital voice is the need for an AMBE  vocoder to be in the path.  This is contained in the D-STAR HTs and Mobiles from Icom.  The conversion of audio to digital and back happens in this chip.  What goes over the air is the digital signal.  It is possible to adapt some analog FM radios with external hardware and software to use D-STAR DV.  There is also a provision in the protocol to have a special hybrid device at a D-STAR gateway to provide the AMBE encode/decode and interact with analog radios, but it has not been implemented.  I could sketch out how that might be accomplished with a second analog radio and a UDR56K-4, but will leave that for another time.

BTW, I was introduced to Zydeco only about 20 years ago. Love it, and occasionally run across a station on my Internet radio, hoo-wee!!!


John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  



On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 7:50 AM, carter_hutchinson <zydecos@...> wrote:
 

I missed this at Dayton. Can I use this with my analog HT and connect to the dstar network, or do I need an Icom dstar HT?
73
K9kjn


Re: API's & Documentation Underway?

"Chris B" <brizey02@...>
 

I'm ready to start doing some development also!

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "John D. Hays" <john@...> wrote:

Hi Brian,

There will be APIs. We are busy in development right now, and will be
focusing on getting the radio ready for market.

We encourage development for this device, hence the high use of FOSS (Free
Open Source Software) by NorthWest Digital Radio.

Development is pretty straight forward. The device is running a Debian
Squeeze distribution, so the baseline is familiarity with development under
Linux. In house development is done running a cross compilation tool chain
on desktop Debian systems (to take advantage of multi-core processors and
high memory), either native or as a VM, and the completed builds are
transferred to the CPU board for the radio.

What we will provide are APIs to control the radio; frequency, shift,
modulation choice, power, and any other similar controls. We will also
provide drivers to send and receive data between the CPU board and radio
board, and between the CPU board and the Vocoder board.

Since the integration is at buss levels, programs will be able to talk to
the radio directly over the buss, eliminating some of the bottlenecks of
previous implementations.

------------------------------
John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
<http://k7ve.org/blog> <http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays>
<http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays>



On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Brian Duck <bkduck@...> wrote:

**


So, I'm interested in custom application development for the UDR56K-4.

Are there API's under development or documentation to review?

Thanks for your efforts on what looks to be a great platform.

Brian Duck
W1DUC
bkduck@...


P25?

"hf_user" <zcopters@...>
 

Hi Bryan!


Any chance you will have a P25 repeater available? Timeframe?


Thanks,


Larry
WA7LZO

Re: P25?

"k7udr" <bhhoyer@...>
 

Larry,

Repeater operation, the SHORT answer.

Repeaters require full-duplex operation. NW Digital Radio is planning on releasing a Full Duplex Radio sometime next year pending response of our initial product.

P25, DMR, NXDN The LONG answer.

The UDR56K has the ability to support many protocols in software, limited only by modulation type, data rate and other ait interface limitations like TDMA.

The initial release supports the two most popular digital implementations D-STAR and AX.25 but you have to understand that we didn't write the vast majority of the software, the Amateur Community did.

Let's start with packet which was developed by Hams in the 80s.

Linux has an AX.25 Stack which implements the layer 2 protocol, and the Radio chip supports the underlying HDLC synchronous packetization directly.

To operate with the winlink system we use Linux RMS for the gateway and Paclink Unix for the client side. We have added a web browser interface with open-source webmail so you don't need Airmail or any other dedicated program to send and receive emails over the system.

For APRS, which also depends on the AX25 stack, we are integrating APRX which performs the various functions including acting as an I-Gate. GPS units are available OTS with Linux drivers as well.

As for D-STAR, there is also a lot of open source available. We use the g4klx suite including his gateway and repeater controller, as well as Ircddb as the database.

So the question is not whether NW Digital Radio is going to support P25, DMR, NXDN etc. It's whether the Amateur community feels there is enough value to dedicate their resources to it. Once that happens they can certainly port to our open-source platform. and we're here to help.

Bryan

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "hf_user" <zcopters@...> wrote:

Hi Bryan!


Any chance you will have a P25 repeater available? Timeframe?


Thanks,


Larry
WA7LZO

Re: P25?

Tyrell Berry <kd7kuj@...>
 


> The UDR56K has the ability to support many protocols in software, limited only by modulation type, data rate and other ait interface limitations like TDMA.

Is it capable of the 1.5 msec full tx power up/power down required by DMR's TDMA? 

Re: P25?

"David Lake (dlake)" <dlake@...>
 

That’s on the mobile side.

 

BS is constant carrier even for empty timeslots.

 

Format is TS1 – CACH – TS2 – CACH repeated.

 

From: UniversalDigitalRadio@... [mailto:UniversalDigitalRadio@...] On Behalf Of Tyrell Berry
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:22 AM
To: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
Subject: Re: [UniversalDigitalRadio] Re: P25?

 





> The UDR56K has the ability to support many protocols in software, limited only by modulation type, data rate and other ait interface limitations like TDMA.

Is it capable of the 1.5 msec full tx power up/power down required by DMR's TDMA? 




Re: P25?

"Chris B" <brizey02@...>
 

I was just thinking of 2 units to do P25 with!

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "David Lake (dlake)" <dlake@...> wrote:

That's on the mobile side.



BS is constant carrier even for empty timeslots.



Format is TS1 - CACH - TS2 - CACH repeated.



From: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
[mailto:UniversalDigitalRadio@...] On Behalf Of Tyrell Berry
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:22 AM
To: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
Subject: Re: [UniversalDigitalRadio] Re: P25?









The UDR56K has the ability to support many protocols in software,
limited only by modulation type, data rate and other ait interface
limitations like TDMA.

Is it capable of the 1.5 msec full tx power up/power down required by
DMR's TDMA?

Re: P25?

"William Stillwell - KI4SWY" <wkstill@...>
 

Not sure if any of you have seen this:

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Digital_Speech_Decoder_%28software_
package%29


Linux Based Decoder Software that supports:

• P25 Phase 1
• ProVoice EDACS Digital voice
• X2-TDMA - Motorola public safety TDMA system with P25 style signaling
(mostly based on DMR)
• DMR/MOTOTRBO - Digital Mobile Radio standard
• NXDN - 9600 baud (12.5 kHz) NEXEDGE and 4800 baud (6.25 kHz) NEXEDGE/IDAS
• C4FM modulation
• GFSK modulation (including GMSK and other filtered 2/4 level FSK)
• QPSK modulation (sometimes marketed as "LSM")

The following formats are currently under investigation or development:
• P25 Phase 2 - standard not finalized yet, vocoder is supported by mbelib
• OpenSky - four slot format vocoder may be supported by mbelib. Will not be
supportable if it is determined that voice encryption is not optional
• D-STAR - Voice frames recognized, vocoder not supported by mbelib. May be
possible to pass voice bits to DVDongle.
• Other formats will only be considered if high quality samples of the
signals are made available for download by the developers. Samples must be
from a discriminator tap, .wav format, 48000Hz, 16 bits per sample, mono.



From: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
[mailto:UniversalDigitalRadio@...] On Behalf Of Chris B
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 3:21 PM
To: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
Subject: [UniversalDigitalRadio] Re: P25?

 
I was just thinking of 2 units to do P25 with!

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "David Lake (dlake)"
<dlake@...> wrote:

That's on the mobile side.



BS is constant carrier even for empty timeslots.



Format is TS1 - CACH - TS2 - CACH repeated.



From: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
[mailto:UniversalDigitalRadio@...] On Behalf Of Tyrell Berry
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:22 AM
To: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
Subject: Re: [UniversalDigitalRadio] Re: P25?









The UDR56K has the ability to support many protocols in software,
limited only by modulation type, data rate and other ait interface
limitations like TDMA.

Is it capable of the 1.5 msec full tx power up/power down required by
DMR's TDMA?

Re: P25?

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

I am familiar with the package -- NW Digital Radio would not be inclined to directly support it, due to the following:

Patent Issues with mbelib

While DSD was intended to be patent-free, mbelib describes functions that may be covered by one or more U.S. patents owned by DVSI Inc. The source code itself should not be infringing as it merely describes possible methods of implementation. Compiling or using mbelib may infringe on patents rights and/or require licensing. It is unknown if DVSI will sell licenses for software that uses mbelib. If you do not have a license and are in a jurisdiction protected by the DVSI patents you should not compile or use this source code. 


-- from the project site.


If the mbelib is not used, the rest of the code might be worth study by a developer.   P25 Phase 2 does use an AMBE chip (newer than the one D-STAR uses --  We are studying using the newest 3000 series chip in our daughter card).  Phase 1 uses the incompatible IMBE vocoder.



John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  



On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 5:13 PM, William Stillwell - KI4SWY <wkstill@...> wrote:
 

Not sure if any of you have seen this:

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Digital_Speech_Decoder_%28software_
package%29

Linux Based Decoder Software that supports:

• P25 Phase 1
• ProVoice EDACS Digital voice
• X2-TDMA - Motorola public safety TDMA system with P25 style signaling
(mostly based on DMR)
• DMR/MOTOTRBO - Digital Mobile Radio standard
• NXDN - 9600 baud (12.5 kHz) NEXEDGE and 4800 baud (6.25 kHz) NEXEDGE/IDAS
• C4FM modulation
• GFSK modulation (including GMSK and other filtered 2/4 level FSK)
• QPSK modulation (sometimes marketed as "LSM")

The following formats are currently under investigation or development:
• P25 Phase 2 - standard not finalized yet, vocoder is supported by mbelib
• OpenSky - four slot format vocoder may be supported by mbelib. Will not be
supportable if it is determined that voice encryption is not optional
• D-STAR - Voice frames recognized, vocoder not supported by mbelib. May be
possible to pass voice bits to DVDongle.
• Other formats will only be considered if high quality samples of the
signals are made available for download by the developers. Samples must be
from a discriminator tap, .wav format, 48000Hz, 16 bits per sample, mono.

Re: P25?

"William Stillwell - KI4SWY" <wkstill@...>
 

But you said you would be using the AMBE Vocoder 3000? Which would not require the use of mbelib at all.

Re: P25?

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

Considering 3000, yes.  

P25 - IMBE
P25 Phase 2 - AMBE

I don't think the 3000 does IMBE.


John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  



On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:13 PM, William Stillwell - KI4SWY <wkstill@...> wrote:
 

But you said you would be using the AMBE Vocoder 3000? Which would not require the use of mbelib at all.


Re: P25?

Tyrell Berry <kd7kuj@...>
 

But...  No transmit... 

I have seen it before, and its cool...  For unlicensed folk who like to listen to police scanners.  But I want to talk...  and for that, I need the other half of the code.

And I'm not smart enough to write it myself :/

On Jun 5, 2012 6:00 PM, "William Stillwell - KI4SWY" <wkstill@...> wrote:
 

Not sure if any of you have seen this:

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Digital_Speech_Decoder_%28software_
package%29

Linux Based Decoder Software that supports:

• P25 Phase 1

Re: P25?

"William Stillwell - KI4SWY" <wkstill@...>
 

Well, if you don’t know how to “generate” data stream, decoding it is the first hurdle.

 

Ie, when “dstar” first came into light, ICOM didn’t freely publish the TCP/IP stack, it had to be “deciphered” and applications where written, application were used, to “gather the data” on how it worked.

 

DSD would be a great tool for understanding how the over the air protocol works for different modes, then one can work on building a transmit stream.

 

Before everyone was using GMSK modem chips for their “nodes”, but now people are using sound cards, and dsp chips doing it all in software.

 

You want to transmit P25? NXDN? DSTAR? And you want to do it now? Sorry to say, check out ebay.

 

I own 3 Dstar Radios (down from 5 and a repeater), and 2 NXDN radios and an NXDN repeater.

 

The cost of NXDN is way less then D-Star which is the sad part.

 

MTRTRBO is also looking very good price wise as well, (considering a “new” icom D-star Repeater w/Gateway server cost you 4K + (pc’s are not free, neither is the official icom gw software) if doing all “ICOM” labeled. MOTOTRBO Repeaters are around 2K ? I am not sure if it comes with the IP Option. Or how much more on top of the 2K.

 

There are a LOT of licensed operators who run scanners in their cars, and shacks, there great tools.

 

William Stillwell – Ki4SwY

ICOM NXDN Repeater – 442.7625 RAN 1

IRLP Node # 8549 (offline)

New Port Richey, FL

 

 

From: UniversalDigitalRadio@... [mailto:UniversalDigitalRadio@...] On Behalf Of Tyrell Berry
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 1:52 AM
To: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
Subject: RE: [UniversalDigitalRadio] Re: P25?

 

 

But...  No transmit... 

I have seen it before, and its cool...  For unlicensed folk who like to listen to police scanners.  But I want to talk...  and for that, I need the other half of the code.

And I'm not smart enough to write it myself :/

On Jun 5, 2012 6:00 PM, "William Stillwell - KI4SWY" <wkstill@...> wrote:

 

Not sure if any of you have seen this:

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Digital_Speech_Decoder_%28software_
package%29

Linux Based Decoder Software that supports:

• P25 Phase 1

Re: P25?

"k7udr" <bhhoyer@...>
 

I haven't verified it, but it should be possible.

Bryan

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., Tyrell Berry <kd7kuj@...> wrote:

The UDR56K has the ability to support many protocols in software, limited
only by modulation type, data rate and other ait interface limitations like
TDMA.

Is it capable of the 1.5 msec full tx power up/power down required by DMR's
TDMA?

Re: P25?

"hf_user" <zcopters@...>
 

Keep in mind that P25 II TDMA is only capable of network repeater operation (read that "trunked"). Simplex is not supported on Phase II, as there is no way to accomplish the sync requirement for 2 subscriber sets in direct simplex mode, thus infrastructure is required.

Larry
WA7LZO

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "John D. Hays" <john@...> wrote:

Considering 3000, yes.

P25 - IMBE
P25 Phase 2 - AMBE

I don't think the 3000 does IMBE.

------------------------------
John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
<http://k7ve.org/blog> <http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays>
<http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays>



On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:13 PM, William Stillwell - KI4SWY <
wkstill@...> wrote:

**


But you said you would be using the AMBE Vocoder 3000? Which would not
require the use of mbelib at all.


PAPA System Net this Thursday

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

The PAPA System (http://www.papasys.com/) has invited me to participate on their net this Thursday on D-PLUS REF012C at 8PM Pacific (0300Z).  

Apparently there is a lot of discussion about the UDR56K in Southern California.

I will be giving a general overview of the genesis, technology, and applications for the UDR56K, followed by a Q&A for net check-ins.

Since this will be "on the air" over amateur radio, I will not be able to provide any responses to questions related to sales or support.

The net can be accessed for check-in on REF012C. REF012 is also available as an audio feed at http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?action=wp&feedId=5429


John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  

Re: P25?

n9rhg@...
 

Seeing that P25 Phase 2 is almost the same as DMR, how do they do it?! Phase 2 will do the same as DMR, use time slot 1 only on simplex. It will work, just only one time slot - one user at a time.


Darren N9RHG


From: "hf_user" To: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 8:29:29 AM
Subject: [UniversalDigitalRadio] Re: P25?

 

Keep in mind that P25 II TDMA is only capable of network repeater operation (read that "trunked"). Simplex is not supported on Phase II, as there is no way to accomplish the sync requirement for 2 subscriber sets in direct simplex mode, thus infrastructure is required.

Larry
WA7LZO


--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "John D. Hays" wrote:
>
> Considering 3000, yes.
>
> P25 - IMBE
> P25 Phase 2 - AMBE
>
> I don't think the 3000 does IMBE.
>
> ------------------------------
> John D. Hays
> K7VE
> PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
> <http://k7ve.org/blog> <http://twitter.com/#!/john_hays>
> <http://www.facebook.com/john.d.hays>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:13 PM, William Stillwell - KI4SWY <
> wkstill@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > But you said you would be using the AMBE Vocoder 3000? Which would not
> > require the use of mbelib at all.
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: P25?

n9rhg@...
 

The 3000 does support P25 P1 and P2, and DMR per there web site. The 3003 will also support the dPMR (the protocol that the new Yaesu radio is using) AMBE+2 and beond are said to be backwards compatable to IMBE.


Darren N9RHG


From: "John D. Hays"
To: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 8:20:41 PM
Subject: Re: [UniversalDigitalRadio] Re: P25?

 

Considering 3000, yes.  


P25 - IMBE
P25 Phase 2 - AMBE

I don't think the 3000 does IMBE.


John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  



On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:13 PM, William Stillwell - KI4SWY <wkstill@...> wrote:
 

But you said you would be using the AMBE Vocoder 3000? Which would not require the use of mbelib at all.