Date   
Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...>
 

That is a great idea, nice........... Im liking it even more .


 He said:
"Here's the good news though.  If you have a current igate on 2m, you can replace the computer with a UDR56K, attach a USB-to-Serial cable  to the TNC and radio to continue to service the 144.39 net, while offering 9600 baud or better APRS on the UDR56K's 70cm radio.  Then you would have a dual band igate with less power requirement (by loosing the computer) and a much smaller package.  Attach a diplexer and dual band antenna and you are ready to go."

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain


On May 22, 2012, at 11:29 AM, "John D. Hays" <john@...> wrote:

Here's the good news though.  If you have a current igate on 2m, you can replace the computer with a UDR56K, attach a USB-to-Serial cable  to the TNC and radio to continue to service the 144.39 net, while offering 9600 baud or better APRS on the UDR56K's 70cm radio.  Then you would have a dual band igate with less power requirement (by loosing the computer) and a much smaller package.  Attach a diplexer and dual band antenna and you are ready to go.

Activity in Statesboro-Savannah Area?

"qrv@..." <qrv@...>
 

Is anyone from the Statesboro-Savannah (GA-USA) area
involved yet?

Integrated APRS/D-Star systems sound like an excellent
redundant-wireless communication network to backstop
vulnerable wired, cellphone, and Internet networks.

Integrating the currently isolated strings of networks
on 2/220/440/9600 plus APRS and D-Star deepens the density
of redundancy.

Developing 440 makes sense, as does folding-in 9600 and
220, along with 2M.


--

Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com

David Colburn - Nevils, Georgia USA

Android for Hams: groups.yahoo.com/group/hamdroid

Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Sander Pool <sander_pool@...>
 


I will tune my igate to 445.925 and see what I pick up over the next few days. Near as I can tell all local (CT/NY area) users are on 144.390 but maybe I'm missing out on a lot of traffic. I will also run my mobiles on that frequency to see if any other igates are listening. I don't think igates announce their frequency but if non-144.390 is common in the US it should probably be included so you can see on aprs.fi and other servers.

73,

    Sander W1SOP

On 5/22/2012 2:01 PM, Perry Chamberlain wrote:
 
The 440 aprs packet frequency used is 445.925. In some areas, its dead quiet, in some its packed.
But there are 440 freqs to use aprs. It just means you have better propagation, no collisions and as long as your igated, it goes to the WEB apr IS. 

Re: Heard on the street

"qrv@..." <qrv@...>
 

tizen.org is a fascinating project, joined by some
big players like Samsung, to foster development of
Linux across a wide spectrum of applications and
devices.

A project like that reinforces the growing presence
of Linux as a major player in the world of technology
at every level.

Apple, Linux, and Microsoft all use a "windows" type
of gui - there is nothing whatsoever unique about the
MS implementation.

One neat new development is the kinect-type in-the-air
interface where hand-gestures replace a physical mouse.

Voice interfaces have finally crossed a threshold of
accuracy where they also alter the way that we control
devices. Accessibility for handicapped users and mobile
ops are obvious apps.

Exciting times!


--

Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com

David Colburn - Nevils, Georgia USA

Android for Hams: groups.yahoo.com/group/hamdroid

Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

Hi Sander,

Maybe I can clarify this a little bit.   If you look at the wiki information in the link you included, 144.39 nor 1200 baud is universally used for APRS or igates.  You will find there are UHF networks and 9600 baud networks, including 9600 baud UHF networks.

Obviously, anyone using a UDR56K for an APRS tracker is only going to be able to report to 70cm igates.   

The UDR56K was designed to be both a user radio and an infrastructure (igate, D-STAR gateway, AMPRNET, RMS, etc.) radio.  If you are using it in infrastructure, say as an igate, it can do that.  A frequency, modulation (FSK, GMSK, 4FSK) and baud rate (4800-56000) would be selected and the proper application loaded and run.  Any trackers would need to match the same combination.

A lot of thought went into the selection of the band and the modes under which the radio would operate.  

The concept of "Universal" Digital Radio means it can be used for more than one application.  So while one user might want to use it for 9600 baud APRS, another might want to run it at 56Kbps for file transfers in an RMS function, or to pass AMPRNET or D-STAR DATA traffic.   Yet another user might want to run D-STAR Voice or Codec-2.   

2 meters, suffers from being "too popular" -- in many countries it is only 2 mHz wide, with FM repeaters, weak signal, APRS, satellites, etc. all trying to squeeze into the band.  A 56Kbps signal is not permitted in the US FCC regulations on 2 meters and would not be friendly to other spectrum users if it were.   

The 219 and 222 band is interesting and may lend itself to a UDR type radio (the band is only available in a limited area such as US/Canada), so the thought is that it is better to use 70cm as a good place to start:
  • 10-30 mHz. of spectrum in most areas
  • reasonable feedline/connectors (compared to microwave)
  • descent propagation (not as good as 2m, obviously but better than 33/23 cm)
  • allows a data signal of up to 100 kHz bandwidth and 56 baud signal rate, with spectrum to support it
I believe that both tactical users (e.g. Emcomm) and experimenters will have a new world opened up to them with a less crowded spectrum.  In the US, it seems a lot of people think the lower end of 70cm is at 440 mHz., when there is an additional 10-20 mHz below that. (To me it's silly to try to squeeze APRS into 440-450, one proposal puts it on a frequency that is a repeater output in some band plans.)

Here's the good news though.  If you have a current igate on 2m, you can replace the computer with a UDR56K, attach a USB-to-Serial cable  to the TNC and radio to continue to service the 144.39 net, while offering 9600 baud or better APRS on the UDR56K's 70cm radio.  Then you would have a dual band igate with less power requirement (by loosing the computer) and a much smaller package.  Attach a diplexer and dual band antenna and you are ready to go.


John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  



On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Sander Pool <sander_pool@...> wrote:
 


Right, if you have a local userbase that runs APRS on 70cm then this would be a great radio. It could even be an advantage that no one 'in the know' will be pinging your igate with 144.390 packets. But as a general purpose APRS igate it would not be very useful.

http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=Frequencies

To be clear, I have nothing against UHF or any other frequency, of course. Clearly there are advantages to running 9600 baud packet over UHF. I was questioning the use of APRS in the flyer. I suppose anyone with the knowledge to set up a linux based APRS igate would not be confused and quickly see that it is not usable on the most often used frequencies.

73,

    Sander W1SOP


Re: Codec2

Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...>
 

Is it interoperable with the AMBE CHIP embedded radios?


Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain


On May 22, 2012, at 9:17 AM, "nikropht" <nikropht@...> wrote:

 

I wanted to let this group know about the progress on Codec2. Codec2 is a fully open source DV codec being developed as a replacement for AMBE2000 see http://www.codec2.org/ for details.

-Mike
KD5QLN

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...>
 

The 440 aprs packet frequency used is 445.925. In some areas, its dead quiet, in some its packed.
But there are 440 freqs to use aprs. It just means you have better propagation, no collisions and as long as your igated, it goes to the WEB apr IS.

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain


On May 22, 2012, at 9:11 AM, Sander Pool <sander_pool@...> wrote:

 


Hi,

the radio looks interesting but without a 2m radio how could it
reasonably be an APRS igate? I realize you can run APRS on many
frequencies but it's not much use running an igate when no one is using
your frequency. I'm asking because APRS is listed on the flyer. Actually
it seems 2m is a more popular packet frequency for winlink2k as well but
at least in that case there is no agreed upon frequency so you can run
one on 70cm.

Thanks,

Sander W1SOP

Re: Heard on the street

Tyrell Berry <kd7kuj@...>
 

Not just as a development environment; The stability of Linux makes it ideal for consumer grade products as well, which is why so many consumer grade products (like phones and TVs and routers and firewalls and... etc) use  it. 

On May 22, 2012 9:06 AM, "Chris B" <brizey02@...> wrote:
 

I think the Linux OS is a great platform for development, if it had a Windows OS, I'm sure the price would be very high and limit developers somewhat.

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "John" wrote:
>
> A user would normally access radio functions either via a Web Browser or custom application running on their own computer under its operating system.
>
> Many devices people use every day run a form of Linux and the user never knows. IOS on the iPhone/iPad are based on a Mach kernel (like Linux) and Android is a Linux based OS. Most home Internet routers are also Linux based.
>
> If one is going to write new protocols or applications, then they will probably need some level of Linux knowledge, though one could cross compile and file copy for some applications.
>
> --- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., Steve wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I was with a small group of hams this weekend talking about the radio. One
> > of them mentioned that he was not interested in the radio because he did
> > not know Linux.
>

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Sander Pool <sander_pool@...>
 


Right, if you have a local userbase that runs APRS on 70cm then this would be a great radio. It could even be an advantage that no one 'in the know' will be pinging your igate with 144.390 packets. But as a general purpose APRS igate it would not be very useful.

http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=Frequencies

To be clear, I have nothing against UHF or any other frequency, of course. Clearly there are advantages to running 9600 baud packet over UHF. I was questioning the use of APRS in the flyer. I suppose anyone with the knowledge to set up a linux based APRS igate would not be confused and quickly see that it is not usable on the most often used frequencies.

73,

    Sander W1SOP

On 5/22/2012 12:59 PM, Bill Vodall wrote:
 

The main reason I'd buy one of these radios today is to use as a home
digipeater and iGate for our 96UHF alternate APRS network. UHF and
9600 is plug and play with the Kenwood mobiles but doing 9k6 is a pain
with any other setup.

All you need to make an APRS alt channel is one (preferably two) IGate
on any other frequency. The hard part is getting folks to actually
make use of it. (9k6 is a disadvantage here too but that's another
discussion...)

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@...>
 

the radio looks interesting but without a 2m radio how could it
reasonably be an APRS igate? I realize you can run APRS on many
frequencies but it's not much use running an igate when no one is using
your frequency. I'm asking because APRS is listed on the flyer.
The main reason I'd buy one of these radios today is to use as a home
digipeater and iGate for our 96UHF alternate APRS network. UHF and
9600 is plug and play with the Kenwood mobiles but doing 9k6 is a pain
with any other setup.

All you need to make an APRS alt channel is one (preferably two) IGate
on any other frequency. The hard part is getting folks to actually
make use of it. (9k6 is a disadvantage here too but that's another
discussion...)

73
Bill - WA7NWP

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

"kc5zrq" <kc5zrq@...>
 

Really? VHF? I operate APRS and RMS Packet using UHF at 9600 baud. It works so much better than 1200 baud packet on VHF. The noise floor on UHF is usually lower. A typical ham dual-band antenna has higher gain on UHF than VHF. The bandwidth of 9600 baud AX.25 is more narrow than 1200 baud. There is lots more unused spectrum on UHF than VHF. I want UHF!

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., Sander Pool <sander_pool@...> wrote:


Hi,

the radio looks interesting but without a 2m radio how could it
reasonably be an APRS igate? I realize you can run APRS on many
frequencies but it's not much use running an igate when no one is using
your frequency. I'm asking because APRS is listed on the flyer. Actually
it seems 2m is a more popular packet frequency for winlink2k as well but
at least in that case there is no agreed upon frequency so you can run
one on 70cm.

Thanks,

Sander W1SOP

Codec2

"nikropht" <nikropht@...>
 

I wanted to let this group know about the progress on Codec2. Codec2 is a fully open source DV codec being developed as a replacement for AMBE2000 see http://www.codec2.org/ for details.

-Mike
KD5QLN

No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Sander Pool <sander_pool@...>
 

Hi,

the radio looks interesting but without a 2m radio how could it reasonably be an APRS igate? I realize you can run APRS on many frequencies but it's not much use running an igate when no one is using your frequency. I'm asking because APRS is listed on the flyer. Actually it seems 2m is a more popular packet frequency for winlink2k as well but at least in that case there is no agreed upon frequency so you can run one on 70cm.

Thanks,

Sander W1SOP

Re: Heard on the street

"Chris B" <brizey02@...>
 

I think the Linux OS is a great platform for development, if it had a Windows OS, I'm sure the price would be very high and limit developers somewhat.

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "John" <john@...> wrote:

A user would normally access radio functions either via a Web Browser or custom application running on their own computer under its operating system.

Many devices people use every day run a form of Linux and the user never knows. IOS on the iPhone/iPad are based on a Mach kernel (like Linux) and Android is a Linux based OS. Most home Internet routers are also Linux based.

If one is going to write new protocols or applications, then they will probably need some level of Linux knowledge, though one could cross compile and file copy for some applications.

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., Steve <stevewa206@> wrote:

Hi all,
I was with a small group of hams this weekend talking about the radio. One
of them mentioned that he was not interested in the radio because he did
not know Linux.

Group populated quickly :-)

"perryc" <canoeman@...>
 

Wow this group populated quickly, 93 members in 2 days.
This bodes well for this radio. Looking forward to seeing this in production.
I would like to dump my aging dvr2-2 data radios, and kpc3's on my hill top APRS digI, and make it an IGATE in one swoop.
And have a dedicated D-STAR rig at home and in the field ops.
Pics would be great, even if just production pics of beta.
Something to keep up interest, well we wait....?

Re: New file uploaded to UniversalDigitalRadio

"Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW" <ra3apw@...>
 

Hi John,

well, UDR56K - sounds good and promising.

Can I have few questions:

- RF TX power 25W is for 100% TX cycle? No degradation or switching to low RF power level?
- any additional cooling systems for 25W RF power and 100% cycle?
- what is RX/TX time (TX delay)? Electronic or mechanical RX/TX switching?
- RX: conventional or SDR (I/Q)?
- bandwidth of I/F filters for different speed (switching filters)? Type of filters?
- two points modulation (VCO + VC-TCXO)?
- RX multisignal selectivity?
- direct interface to TRX?
- availability of description of internal interfaces?
- kit availability?
- do you plan to demonstrate any concept of UDR56K in Friedrichafen, Germany in June 22-24?

Good luck with the UDR56K project!

Karen, RA3APW

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., UniversalDigitalRadio@... wrote:


Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the UniversalDigitalRadio
group.

File : /Insert.pdf
Uploaded by : k7ve <john@...>
Description : Product Information Card - Dayton 2012

You can access this file at the URL:
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To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,

k7ve <john@...>

Re: Heard on the street

Tyrell Berry <kd7kuj@...>
 

I read a phrase of nearly exactly that wording in several places on the website...  If people are unwilling to research a product before purchasing it, maybe the product in question isn't right for them.  Just MY opinion.

On May 21, 2012 10:33 PM, "steve" <stevewa206@...> wrote:
I think that needs to be clear on your PDF's etc.... in my opinion!

Steve

On 5/21/2012 9:03 PM, John wrote:
>
> A user would normally access radio functions either via a Web Browser
> or custom application running on their own computer under its
> operating system.
>
> Many devices people use every day run a form of Linux and the user
> never knows. IOS on the iPhone/iPad are based on a Mach kernel (like
> Linux) and Android is a Linux based OS. Most home Internet routers are
> also Linux based.
>
> If one is going to write new protocols or applications, then they will
> probably need some level of Linux knowledge, though one could cross
> compile and file copy for some applications.
>
> --- In UniversalDigitalRadio@...
> UniversalDigitalRadio%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I was with a small group of hams this weekend talking about the
> radio. One
> > of them mentioned that he was not interested in the radio because he did
> > not know Linux.
>
>


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Re: Heard on the street

steve <stevewa206@...>
 

I think that needs to be clear on your PDF's etc.... in my opinion!

Steve

On 5/21/2012 9:03 PM, John wrote:

A user would normally access radio functions either via a Web Browser or custom application running on their own computer under its operating system.

Many devices people use every day run a form of Linux and the user never knows. IOS on the iPhone/iPad are based on a Mach kernel (like Linux) and Android is a Linux based OS. Most home Internet routers are also Linux based.

If one is going to write new protocols or applications, then they will probably need some level of Linux knowledge, though one could cross compile and file copy for some applications.

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@... <mailto:UniversalDigitalRadio%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve <stevewa206@...> wrote:

Hi all,
I was with a small group of hams this weekend talking about the
radio. One
of them mentioned that he was not interested in the radio because he did
not know Linux.

Re: Full Duplex?

"John" <john@...>
 

The model shown at Dayton is half-duplex only.  Some duplex applications will be possible using external hardware plus software, we'll have some application notes in the future.


--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "William Stillwell - KI4SWY" wrote:
>
> One thing I forgot to ask at Hamvention, is it capable of full duplex?
>
>
>
> William Stillwell - Ki4SwY
>
> ICOM NXDN Repeater - 442.7625
>
> IRLP Node # 8549
>
> New Port Richey, FL
>

Re: Heard on the street

Mickey Baker <fishflorida@...>
 

Several years ago, I was working as a CTO of a government organization. We were low on funds to purchase public access PCs that we put in the libraries for people to use, but had a room full of discarded desktop computers from a recent replacement project. We had no extra seats of Microsoft products for these computers.

We put a flavor of Linux and OpenOffice on those PCs, deployed them to 4 different libraries and had zero complaints.

After a bit of tweaking, Linux looked so much like Windoze that the casual user didn't notice a serious difference. Five years later, that practice is still in use - when used desktop PC's are replaced, they go to the libraries and to the jail for use, running Linux, costing the local government nothing. 

There is nothing to worry about. Linux is generally more stable that Windows XP and at least as easy to use. This is nothing to fret about.

73,

Mickey N4MB



On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Steve <stevewa206@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,

I was with a small group of hams this weekend talking about the radio. One of them mentioned that he was not interested in the radio because he did not know Linux. I think there might be some marketing issues here. I do believe that there will be web pages for set up ans applications so a user does not have to use the Linux command line? Or is that later? 

Tons of non Linux users out there.

Steve N0FPF




--
Mickey Baker, N4MB
Fort Lauderdale, FL
“Tell me, and I will listen. Show me, and I will understand. Involve me, and I will learn.” Teton Lakota, American Indian Saying.