main@nw-digital-radio.groups.io

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...>

#52

The 440 aprs packet frequency used is 445.925. In some areas, its dead quiet, in some its packed.

But there are 440 freqs to use aprs. It just means you have better propagation, no collisions and as long as your igated, it goes to the WEB apr IS.

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain

Show quoted text

On May 22, 2012, at 9:11 AM, Sander Pool <sander_pool@...> wrote:

Hi,

the radio looks interesting but without a 2m radio how could it
reasonably be an APRS igate? I realize you can run APRS on many
frequencies but it's not much use running an igate when no one is using
your frequency. I'm asking because APRS is listed on the flyer. Actually
it seems 2m is a more popular packet frequency for winlink2k as well but
at least in that case there is no agreed upon frequency so you can run
one on 70cm.

Thanks,

Sander W1SOP

Re: Codec2

Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...>

#53

Is it interoperable with the AMBE CHIP embedded radios?

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain

Show quoted text

On May 22, 2012, at 9:17 AM, "nikropht" <nikropht@...> wrote:

I wanted to let this group know about the progress on Codec2. Codec2 is a fully open source DV codec being developed as a replacement for AMBE2000 see http://www.codec2.org/ for details.

-Mike
KD5QLN

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

"John D. Hays" <john@...>

#50

Hi Sander,

Maybe I can clarify this a little bit. If you look at the wiki information in the link you included, 144.39 nor 1200 baud is universally used for APRS or igates. You will find there are UHF networks and 9600 baud networks, including 9600 baud UHF networks.

Obviously, anyone using a UDR56K for an APRS tracker is only going to be able to report to 70cm igates.

The UDR56K was designed to be both a user radio and an infrastructure (igate, D-STAR gateway, AMPRNET, RMS, etc.) radio. If you are using it in infrastructure, say as an igate, it can do that. A frequency, modulation (FSK, GMSK, 4FSK) and baud rate (4800-56000) would be selected and the proper application loaded and run. Any trackers would need to match the same combination.

A lot of thought went into the selection of the band and the modes under which the radio would operate.

The concept of "Universal" Digital Radio means it can be used for more than one application. So while one user might want to use it for 9600 baud APRS, another might want to run it at 56Kbps for file transfers in an RMS function, or to pass AMPRNET or D-STAR DATA traffic. Yet another user might want to run D-STAR Voice or Codec-2.

2 meters, suffers from being "too popular" -- in many countries it is only 2 mHz wide, with FM repeaters, weak signal, APRS, satellites, etc. all trying to squeeze into the band. A 56Kbps signal is not permitted in the US FCC regulations on 2 meters and would not be friendly to other spectrum users if it were.

The 219 and 222 band is interesting and may lend itself to a UDR type radio (the band is only available in a limited area such as US/Canada), so the thought is that it is better to use 70cm as a good place to start:

10-30 mHz. of spectrum in most areas
reasonable feedline/connectors (compared to microwave)
descent propagation (not as good as 2m, obviously but better than 33/23 cm)
allows a data signal of up to 100 kHz bandwidth and 56 baud signal rate, with spectrum to support it

I believe that both tactical users (e.g. Emcomm) and experimenters will have a new world opened up to them with a less crowded spectrum. In the US, it seems a lot of people think the lower end of 70cm is at 440 mHz., when there is an additional 10-20 mHz below that. (To me it's silly to try to squeeze APRS into 440-450, one proposal puts it on a frequency that is a repeater output in some band plans.)

Here's the good news though. If you have a current igate on 2m, you can replace the computer with a UDR56K, attach a USB-to-Serial cable to the TNC and radio to continue to service the 144.39 net, while offering 9600 baud or better APRS on the UDR56K's 70cm radio. Then you would have a dual band igate with less power requirement (by loosing the computer) and a much smaller package. Attach a diplexer and dual band antenna and you are ready to go.

John D. Hays
K7VE

PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223

Show quoted text

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Sander Pool <sander_pool@...> wrote:

Right, if you have a local userbase that runs APRS on 70cm then this would be a great radio. It could even be an advantage that no one 'in the know' will be pinging your igate with 144.390 packets. But as a general purpose APRS igate it would not be very useful.

http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=Frequencies

To be clear, I have nothing against UHF or any other frequency, of course. Clearly there are advantages to running 9600 baud packet over UHF. I was questioning the use of APRS in the flyer. I suppose anyone with the knowledge to set up a linux based APRS igate would not be confused and quickly see that it is not usable on the most often used frequencies.

73,

Sander W1SOP

Re: Heard on the street

"qrv@..." <qrv@...>

#54

tizen.org is a fascinating project, joined by some
big players like Samsung, to foster development of
Linux across a wide spectrum of applications and
devices.

A project like that reinforces the growing presence
of Linux as a major player in the world of technology
at every level.

Apple, Linux, and Microsoft all use a "windows" type
of gui - there is nothing whatsoever unique about the
MS implementation.

One neat new development is the kinect-type in-the-air
interface where hand-gestures replace a physical mouse.

Voice interfaces have finally crossed a threshold of
accuracy where they also alter the way that we control
devices. Accessibility for handicapped users and mobile
ops are obvious apps.

Exciting times!


-- 

Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com

David Colburn - Nevils, Georgia USA

Android for Hams: groups.yahoo.com/group/hamdroid

Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Sander Pool <sander_pool@...>

#55

I will tune my igate to 445.925 and see what I pick up over the next few days. Near as I can tell all local (CT/NY area) users are on 144.390 but maybe I'm missing out on a lot of traffic. I will also run my mobiles on that frequency to see if any other igates are listening. I don't think igates announce their frequency but if non-144.390 is common in the US it should probably be included so you can see on aprs.fi and other servers.

73,

Sander W1SOP

Show quoted text

On 5/22/2012 2:01 PM, Perry Chamberlain wrote:

The 440 aprs packet frequency used is 445.925. In some areas, its dead quiet, in some its packed.

But there are 440 freqs to use aprs. It just means you have better propagation, no collisions and as long as your igated, it goes to the WEB apr IS.

Activity in Statesboro-Savannah Area?

"qrv@..." <qrv@...>

#56

Is anyone from the Statesboro-Savannah (GA-USA) area
involved yet?

Integrated APRS/D-Star systems sound like an excellent
redundant-wireless communication network to backstop
vulnerable wired, cellphone, and Internet networks.

Integrating the currently isolated strings of networks
on 2/220/440/9600 plus APRS and D-Star deepens the density
of redundancy.

Developing 440 makes sense, as does folding-in 9600 and
220, along with 2M.


-- 

Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com

David Colburn - Nevils, Georgia USA

Android for Hams: groups.yahoo.com/group/hamdroid

Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...>

#57

That is a great idea, nice........... Im liking it even more .

He said:

"Here's the good news though. If you have a current igate on 2m, you can replace the computer with a UDR56K, attach a USB-to-Serial cable to the TNC and radio to continue to service the 144.39 net, while offering 9600 baud or better APRS on the UDR56K's 70cm radio. Then you would have a dual band igate with less power requirement (by loosing the computer) and a much smaller package. Attach a diplexer and dual band antenna and you are ready to go."

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain

Show quoted text

On May 22, 2012, at 11:29 AM, "John D. Hays" <john@...> wrote:

Here's the good news though. If you have a current igate on 2m, you can replace the computer with a UDR56K, attach a USB-to-Serial cable to the TNC and radio to continue to service the 144.39 net, while offering 9600 baud or better APRS on the UDR56K's 70cm radio. Then you would have a dual band igate with less power requirement (by loosing the computer) and a much smaller package. Attach a diplexer and dual band antenna and you are ready to go.

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@...>

#58

(FSK, GMSK, 4FSK) and baud rate (4800-56000) would be selected and the
proper application loaded and run.  Any trackers would need to match the
same combination.No 1200 baud?   :-(       True it's overkill for a UDR but it could be
useful at times...

Bill

Re: Activity in Statesboro-Savannah Area?

Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...>

#59

The icom ID-31A has built in gps, and its already forwarding Dprs packets under dstar, to the findu IS.

But this radio looks like it will have so many more uses. Hope it doesnt take too long for this to come out. (impatient ham)

I mean, wow, a built in linux machine. :-)

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain

Show quoted text

On May 22, 2012, at 11:48 AM, "qrv@..." <qrv@...> wrote:

Is anyone from the Statesboro-Savannah (GA-USA) area
involved yet?

Integrated APRS/D-Star systems sound like an excellent
redundant-wireless communication network to backstop
vulnerable wired, cellphone, and Internet networks.

Integrating the currently isolated strings of networks
on 2/220/440/9600 plus APRS and D-Star deepens the density
of redundancy.

Developing 440 makes sense, as does folding-in 9600 and
220, along with 2M.

--

Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com

David Colburn - Nevils, Georgia USA

Android for Hams: groups.yahoo.com/group/hamdroid

Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22

Re: Codec2

"craigkv5e" <stauros@...>

#60

No it is not, Craig

Show quoted text

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com, Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...> wrote:

Is it interoperable with the AMBE CHIP embedded radios?

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain

On May 22, 2012, at 9:17 AM, "nikropht" <nikropht@...> wrote:

I wanted to let this group know about the progress on Codec2. Codec2 is a fully open source DV codec being developed as a replacement for AMBE2000 see http://www.codec2.org/ for details.

-Mike
KD5QLN

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...>

#61

Byonics tried to get a line of 440mhz trackers up, but no one was interested. Maybe now.

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain

Show quoted text

On May 22, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@...> wrote:

> (FSK, GMSK, 4FSK) and baud rate (4800-56000) would be selected and the
> proper application loaded and run. Any trackers would need to match the
> same combination.

No 1200 baud? :-( True it's overkill for a UDR but it could be
useful at times...

Bill

Re: No 2m but still an APRS igate?

"richark" <richark@...>

#63

I don't think there is a 'universal' APRS channel for 70cm, like 144.39 is for 2m.  Here in the Northwest, we use 440.800 for 9k6 APRS.

Not sure how official this list is, but it provides other alternatives around the world.

http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=Frequencies

73,
Kenny, KU7M

Show quoted text

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com, Sander Pool <sander_pool@...> wrote:


I will tune my igate to 445.925 and see what I pick up over the next few
days. Near as I can tell all local (CT/NY area) users are on 144.390 but
maybe I'm missing out on a lot of traffic. I will also run my mobiles on
that frequency to see if any other igates are listening. I don't think
igates announce their frequency but if non-144.390 is common in the US
it should probably be included so you can see on aprs.fi and other servers.

73,

     Sander W1SOP

On 5/22/2012 2:01 PM, Perry Chamberlain wrote:
The 440 aprs packet frequency used is 445.925. In some areas, its dead
quiet, in some its packed.
But there are 440 freqs to use aprs. It just means you have better
propagation, no collisions and as long as your igated, it goes to the
WEB apr IS.

Re: Activity in Statesboro-Savannah Area?

"John D. Hays" <john@...>

#62

I went to Dayton and the one thing on my shopping list was an ID-31A (I have 3 other D-STAR radios). I won an ID-31A as a door prize at the D-STAR Pizza dinner Thursday night!

Great little handheld. I like that it keeps a database of D-STAR repeater locations (I need to refresh from http://www.dstarinfo.com/downloads-for-icom-software.aspx) and using the built-in GPS, I can select repeaters "near me" ... cool. It was fun as I passed through airports along the route.

I have already plugged a USB GPS into the UDR56K (CPU board) and loaded gpsd (a daemon many programs use for GPS data) - it loaded and worked right away. Once the UDR56K is fully up, this will be the basis for sending GPS positions via D-STAR, APRS, AX.25, etc. :) The mass storage is a microSD, so keeping a database of infrastructure (frequency, location, etc.) is a natural.

John D. Hays
K7VE

PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223

Show quoted text

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...> wrote:

The icom ID-31A has built in gps, and its already forwarding Dprs packets under dstar, to the findu IS.
But this radio looks like it will have so many more uses. Hope it doesnt take too long for this to come out. (impatient ham)

I mean, wow, a built in linux machine. :-)

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain

Re: Heard on the street

Nate Bargmann <n0nb@...>

#64

* On 2012 22 May 13:49 -0500, qrv@... wrote:
Apple, Linux, and Microsoft all use a "windows" type
of gui - there is nothing whatsoever unique about the
MS implementation.Except that people are familiar with MS Windows' bugs and warts and when
shown a Linux desktop and hear, "Just like Windows", the assumption is
that they will be using a bug-for-bug/wart-for-wart free replacement.
Such is not the case.  Proper advocacy should avoid comparisions, of
which I am guilty.

People that claim Linux is too hard to use have either heard that from
some (to them) reputable source, or had to conjur up X mode lines long
ago.  ;-)  These days I find the automatic detection of most any piece
of hardware I've thrown at my current Linux systems make life much
easier than it must be for those using said devices on MS Windows where
the insrtuctions vary from plug/attach device to install driver software
first.

One neat new development is the kinect-type in-the-air
interface where hand-gestures replace a physical mouse.

Voice interfaces have finally crossed a threshold of
accuracy where they also alter the way that we control
devices. Accessibility for handicapped users and mobile
ops are obvious apps.Ummmm, given the mood I can find myself in at times, the software had
better filter out certain gestures and words from its action command
list!

Exciting times!Indeed.  This project instantly piqued my interest.

73, de Nate >>

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us

Re: Activity in Statesboro-Savannah Area?

Sander Pool <sander_pool@...>

#65

I agree that's a great feature. I think Kenwood missed an opportunity with the D72 to do the same. How easy would it have been to allow coordinates to be stored with memory items and then show the 10 nearest based on the internal GPS. Just a matter of code :)

73,

Sander W1SOP

Show quoted text

On 5/22/2012 3:47 PM, John D. Hays wrote:

and using the built-in GPS, I can select repeaters "near me" ... cool. It was fun as I passed through airports along the route.

Re: Heard on the street

"qrv@..." <qrv@...>

#66

Those who have gone through the last 3 iterations of MS versions
of windows can now easily be told (and understand) that "Adjusting
to Linux is just like adjusting to Vista after you were used to XP."

The difference is no more radical than that - unless one chooses
to go with amore experimental distro.

It's exciting to see more Ham apps and gear moving to Linux.

Show quoted text

Nate Bargmann wrote:
* On 2012 22 May 13:49 -0500, qrv@... wrote:
Apple, Linux, and Microsoft all use a "windows" type
of gui - there is nothing whatsoever unique about the
MS implementation.Except that people are familiar with MS Windows' bugs and warts and when
shown a Linux desktop and hear, "Just like Windows", the assumption is
that they will be using a bug-for-bug/wart-for-wart free replacement.
Such is not the case.  Proper advocacy should avoid comparisions, of
which I am guilty.

-- 

Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com

David Colburn - Nevils, Georgia USA

Android for Hams: groups.yahoo.com/group/hamdroid

Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22

Re: Codec2

Perry Chamberlain <canoeman@...>

#67

Although this is something that should have been done ten years ago, and is cool amateur radio engineering, the hundreds, and hundreds of thousands of dollars that has been spent on the AMBE CODEC EMBEDED equipment, is a massive barrier to this ever changing the Dstar system. And why yaesu, has decided to come out with yet another digital mode, is baffling.

( just a note, I own 6 yeasu radios, so I am a yaesu fan)

But, thats what amateur radio is all about. But it would be nice if we could choose a common codec.

I'm financially entrenched in Icom D-star now, so I'm locked in.

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain

Show quoted text

On May 22, 2012, at 9:17 AM, "nikropht" <nikropht@...> wrote:

I wanted to let this group know about the progress on Codec2. Codec2 is a fully open source DV codec being developed as a replacement for AMBE2000 see http://www.codec2.org/ for details.

-Mike
KD5QLN

Re: Codec2

Matthew Pitts <daywalker_blade_2004@...>

#68

Not directly, no. It is possible to communicate between them with software acting as a bridge between the two, though I haven't actually written the application that will do so. I am also thinking of allowing for normal voice; the D-Star Protocol does include a bridge that allows analogue voice and callsign routing, but this hasn't been implemented by Icom, nor has Jonathan done so, to my knowledge.

Matthew Pitts

N8OHU

Show quoted text

From: craigkv5e
To: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:30 PM
Subject: [UniversalDigitalRadio] Re: Codec2

No it is not, Craig

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., Perry Chamberlain wrote:
>
> Is it interoperable with the AMBE CHIP embedded radios?
>
>
> Respectfully
>
> Perry Chamberlain
>
>
> On May 22, 2012, at 9:17 AM, "nikropht" wrote:
>
> > I wanted to let this group know about the progress on Codec2. Codec2 is a fully open source DV codec being developed as a replacement for AMBE2000 see http://www.codec2.org/ for details.
> >
> > -Mike
> > KD5QLN
> >
> >
>

Re: Codec2

"David Lake (dlake)" <dlake@...>

#69

CODEC 2 is currently missing any FEC, and will not operate down at the required bit-rate to be usable in D-Star. It’s getting there, but I think it has a way to go so don’t expect a swap-out any time soon.

Now, the Yaesu offer (currently) is a dPMR-based FDMA system. But it does look like they will be going to a DMR TDMA system in the future.

dPMR and DMR both use AMBE2+ - not compatible directly with AMBE2 in D-Star, but DVSI have (very cheap) chips that can do both modes. And of course you can transcode between them, either in software if someone is willing to pay DVSI $,000s for the SDK, or in hardware if $20 is more in your budget.

So, what we need (as I proposed at Dayton) is an Open Amateur Trunking protocol that can transport all these different codecs, and then allow people to transcode between them.

Yes, you will be locked into D-Star for a while, but I don’t see why that should be a barrier to talking to someone on, say, a DMR-based system.

David

Show quoted text

From: UniversalDigitalRadio@... [mailto:UniversalDigitalRadio@...] On Behalf Of Perry Chamberlain
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 5:16 PM
To: UniversalDigitalRadio@...
Subject: Re: [UniversalDigitalRadio] Codec2

Although this is something that should have been done ten years ago, and is cool amateur radio engineering, the hundreds, and hundreds of thousands of dollars that has been spent on the AMBE CODEC EMBEDED equipment, is a massive barrier to this ever changing the Dstar system. And why yaesu, has decided to come out with yet another digital mode, is baffling.

( just a note, I own 6 yeasu radios, so I am a yaesu fan)

But, thats what amateur radio is all about. But it would be nice if we could choose a common codec.

I'm financially entrenched in Icom D-star now, so I'm locked in.

Respectfully

Perry Chamberlain

On May 22, 2012, at 9:17 AM, "nikropht" <nikropht@...> wrote:

I wanted to let this group know about the progress on Codec2. Codec2 is a fully open source DV codec being developed as a replacement for AMBE2000 see http://www.codec2.org/ for details.

-Mike
KD5QLN

Re: Codec2

"David Lake (dlake)" <dlake@...>

#70

OK now you're talking politics.

I do have a bridge running between D-Star and Echolink, but there are some admin areas that need to be fixed especially around identification.

The audio quality is actually surprisingly good (unless the incoming Echolink is from a repeater that has not filtered it's CTCSS tone out sufficiently in which case it is HORRIBLE). 

It's not a production� system purely for me to play with.

David

From: UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Pitts
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 5:31 PM
To: UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [UniversalDigitalRadio] Re: Codec2

Not directly, no. It is possible to communicate between them with software acting as a bridge between the two, though I haven't actually written the application that will do so. I am also thinking of allowing for normal voice; the D-Star Protocol does include a bridge that allows analogue voice and callsign routing, but this hasn't been implemented by Icom, nor has Jonathan done so, to my knowledge.

Matthew Pitts

N8OHU