Date   

Store and forward vs Real Time access

"marshalldennyai4cm" <MarshallDenny@...>
 

Another general topic we should consider is how messages of various types and handled in digital/packet ham radio.

We need a great deal more interoperability and integration in our otherwise powerful tools we have in ham radio.

We need a messaging format that can be routed through Packet, winlink, other hf digital modes, etc.

As we have radios that have significant RAM and secondary storage, we can have all of these( under owner control) have store and forward ability.

Just a few ideas to use as a starting point for discussions.
Respectfully,
Marshall
AI4CM


Re: UDR Network?

Tom Hayward <esarfl@...>
 

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 12:54 PM, richark <richark@...> wrote:
 

Tom,

Are you still located in the Seattle area?

There is a large number of us in the greater Seattle area that have signed up to buy.

73,
Kenny, KU7M

Tacoma North End (http://aprs.fi/kd7lxl-1). I know I can get into Renton on 440, but haven't tried anything further north. West Seattle should be easy if someone on the hill buys one. Not sure what my coverage is like to the south, but I'm facing a hill that direction so I'm not optimistic.

I'm not worried about adoption--I saw all the hands raised at Microhams--I'm just curious about the specifics.

Tom KD7LXL


Re: UDR Network?

"richark" <richark@...>
 

Tom,

Are you still located in the Seattle area?

There is a large number of us in the greater Seattle area that have signed up to buy.

73,
Kenny, KU7M

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hayward <esarfl@...> wrote:

How long until the UDR Network map is up? I'd really like to know if
there are other pre-orders in my area.

I suspect there are quite a few people waiting to place their
pre-order until they see someone in their area, so posting a map might
give you a more accurate order estimate.

Tom KD7LXL


Re: UDR Network?

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

Hi Tom,

If you are still in Gig Harbor, the Puget Sound has the highest concentrations of pre-orders.  The map will be forthcoming soon, just working through a technical blocker.

The map will not be real time, but will be updated regularly (at least every couple days and maybe more than once a day.) 



John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  



On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Tom Hayward <esarfl@...> wrote:
 

How long until the UDR Network map is up? I'd really like to know if
there are other pre-orders in my area.

I suspect there are quite a few people waiting to place their
pre-order until they see someone in their area, so posting a map might
give you a more accurate order estimate.

Tom KD7LXL

__._


UDR Network?

Tom Hayward <esarfl@...>
 

How long until the UDR Network map is up? I'd really like to know if
there are other pre-orders in my area.

I suspect there are quite a few people waiting to place their
pre-order until they see someone in their area, so posting a map might
give you a more accurate order estimate.

Tom KD7LXL


Re: D-Star voice?

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

Yes, with the AMBE/D-STAR Voice add-on card.



John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  




On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Ronny Julian <k4rjjradio@...> wrote:
 

One thing I have never been clear on.  Will this radio do RF based D-star voice mode?  I know the D-star is an option like the UT-118 is for my IC-2200H.  Once added can I use the computer headset for D-star voice?

Ronny
K4RJJ

__._,_.


D-Star voice?

Ronny Julian <k4rjjradio@...>
 

One thing I have never been clear on.  Will this radio do RF based D-star voice mode?  I know the D-star is an option like the UT-118 is for my IC-2200H.  Once added can I use the computer headset for D-star voice?

Ronny
K4RJJ


UDR Pre-Orders Now Open

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

http://nwdigitalradio.com/2013/03/pre-orders-are-now-being-accepted/


John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  


Re: RX & TX Ports

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 


As noted, the UDR is not full duplex.  However, it would be possible to create a repeater by attaching  a node adapter, dvrptr, or similar device between the UDR and a separate receiver.  G4KLX's software allows for a 'split repeater' with external receivers (1 or 2 at this time) paired with the UDR as a transmitter.


John D. Hays
K7VE
PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  




On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Marshall Denny <MarshallDenny@...> wrote:
 

Really,

If the UDR can operate full duplex.

Then with some software, it could be a Dstar repeater in a box, nice.



Re: RX & TX Ports

Marshall Denny <MarshallDenny@...>
 

I stand corrected.



On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Marshall Denny <marshalldenny@...> wrote:
Really,

If the UDR can operate full duplex.

Then with some software, it could be a Dstar repeater in a box, nice.


On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 8:17 AM, PE1RDW <pe1rdw@...> wrote:
On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:12:29 +0200, Scanner Groups <groupmail@...>
wrote:

> I would like to find the pros and cons on having the Independent Rx, Tx
> Ports: ?*
>
> *Gavin
> VA3XRR*
> *
con: need to supply your own pinswitch or filter to use a single antenna
and coax, pro: ability to work full duplex.

--
73 Andre PE1RDW


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--
Respectfully,
W. Marshall Denny II
Software Development Engineer
206 734 9242 cell

For if you altogether hold your peace at this time,
then shall relief and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place;
but you and your father's house shall be destroyed:
and who knows whether you are come to the kingdom for such a time as this?  Esther 4:14 KJV



--
Respectfully,
W. Marshall Denny II
Software Development Engineer
206 734 9242 cell

For if you altogether hold your peace at this time,
then shall relief and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place;
but you and your father's house shall be destroyed:
and who knows whether you are come to the kingdom for such a time as this?  Esther 4:14 KJV


Re: RX & TX Ports

Marshall Denny <MarshallDenny@...>
 

Really,

If the UDR can operate full duplex.

Then with some software, it could be a Dstar repeater in a box, nice.


On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 8:17 AM, PE1RDW <pe1rdw@...> wrote:
On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:12:29 +0200, Scanner Groups <groupmail@...>
wrote:

> I would like to find the pros and cons on having the Independent Rx, Tx
> Ports: ?*
>
> *Gavin
> VA3XRR*
> *
con: need to supply your own pinswitch or filter to use a single antenna
and coax, pro: ability to work full duplex.

--
73 Andre PE1RDW


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalDigitalRadio/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalDigitalRadio/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    UniversalDigitalRadio-digest@...
    UniversalDigitalRadio-fullfeatured@...

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    UniversalDigitalRadio-unsubscribe@...

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




--
Respectfully,
W. Marshall Denny II
Software Development Engineer
206 734 9242 cell

For if you altogether hold your peace at this time,
then shall relief and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place;
but you and your father's house shall be destroyed:
and who knows whether you are come to the kingdom for such a time as this?  Esther 4:14 KJV


Re: RX & TX Ports

Bryan Hoyer <bhhoyer@...>
 

The UDR56K-4 is not full duplex. The purpose of the independent port kit, is to support installation at hi-rf sites where filters or isolators are required.

The vast majority of customers will not need the kit. My apologies for not making that clear.

If you ordered one by mistake, don't worry about it. You'll have the chance to update your order when we confirm.
Bryan K7UDR

On Apr 2, 2013, at 8:17 AM, PE1RDW <pe1rdw@...> wrote:

On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:12:29 +0200, Scanner Groups <groupmail@...>
wrote:

I would like to find the pros and cons on having the Independent Rx, Tx
Ports: ?*

*Gavin
VA3XRR*
*
con: need to supply your own pinswitch or filter to use a single antenna
and coax, pro: ability to work full duplex.

--
73 Andre PE1RDW


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: RX & TX Ports

Reid Crowe <reid.crowe@...>
 

PROS:
Full-Duplex
No T/R Switch time issues

Con:
External T/R Switch, less self contained


On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Scanner Groups <groupmail@...> wrote:
 

I would like to find the pros and cons on having the Independent Rx, Tx Ports: ?

Gavin
VA3XRR



Re: RX & TX Ports

PE1RDW <pe1rdw@...>
 

On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:12:29 +0200, Scanner Groups <groupmail@...> wrote:

I would like to find the pros and cons on having the Independent Rx, Tx
Ports: ?*

*Gavin
VA3XRR*
*
con: need to supply your own pinswitch or filter to use a single antenna and coax, pro: ability to work full duplex.

--
73 Andre PE1RDW


RX & TX Ports

Scanner Groups <groupmail@...>
 

I would like to find the pros and cons on having the Independent Rx, Tx Ports: ?

Gavin
VA3XRR


TX Duty Cycle

"k7udr" <bhhoyer@...>
 

Steve, WB4IZC, asks:

"What will be the TX duty cycle of the new UDR56K-4? Does this figure very between tx output powers?"

The UDR56K has a substantial heat-sink designed for high duty cycle applications when compared to typical voice radios.

The PA Module Case Temperature is monitored continuously and is available to the user. Power will be reduced if it reaches 80 C (The module is rated to 90 C) which will be reported as a warning.

How long it takes to get to 80 C is a function of:

Output Power
Ambient Temperature
Heat-sink Orientation
Air Flow

Clearly, locked in the trunk of your car in the hot sun (<10%) will be far lower than a forced-air cooled rack at a repeater site (100%).

We will be releasing thermal performance data before order confirmation.

Cheers,
Bryan


Re: Forward error correction - experiment

"g7ork" <del_swt@...>
 

FEC can provide significant improvements in overall data speeds in a mobile environment - but it is only one factor that needs to be considered. Modulation mode, symbol rate, interleaving etc also need to be taken into account, and the "best" solution for one set of circumstances could turn out to be absolutely useless in others. In the end it will always be a compromise, however I am firmly of the opinion that we can do a lot better than what we have today.

It would be worth your time reading some of the later ETSI standards for 4FSK systems - TS 102 490 for instance. The relatively low symbol rate makes it better in multi-path conditions, but still keeps a half decent data rate by using 2 bits per symbol. In this particular case, some improvement in rx sensitivity is also gained by having a 6.25kHz channel spacing and hence a smaller noise bandwidth. TETRA's 4piDQPSK scheme is even better in some respects, but suffers in a ham market by requiring a linear PA and Rx system. 8FSK with trellis coding could be interesting as well....

Lots to think about.....

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com, Marshall Denny <MarshallDenny@...> wrote:

I will have a look at FX.25.

But, with the flexibility that the UDR will give us. Lets keep all good
ideas on the table until we have a good reason to remove it.

The potential of FEC is not will known in the ham community.

For example, compare the potential for operating in noisy conditions
between psk31 and olivia.
Olivia will operate below the noise floor.
I have worked Olivia on 80m with thunderstorms in the region with 50 over
S9 static crashes with 100% copy.

If well done, this could allow very poor signals to get through at low
speed.
And, also allow 56k packet under conditions that would not work otherwise.

Respectfully,
Marshall
AI4CM

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 4:18 AM, zl2wrw <ross@...> wrote:

**




--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com, "marshalldennyai4cm"
<MarshallDenny@> wrote:

Testing with variable levels of FEC added to an otherwise standard ax.25
protocol.

That sounds very much like the FX.25 protocol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FX.25_Forward_Error_Correction

It's even backwards compatable with plain old non-FEC AX.25 equipment.
Though it does not rectify some of the other historical defects of the
AX.25 protocol that are due to the adapting of wireline X.25 to a wireless
physical layer...

73 ZL2WRW
Ross Whenmouth




--
Respectfully,
W. Marshall Denny II
Software Development Engineer
206 734 9242 cell

For if you altogether hold your peace at this time,
then shall relief and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place;
but you and your father's house shall be destroyed:
and who knows whether you are come to the kingdom for such a time as this?
Esther 4:14 KJV


Re: Forward error correction - experiment

Marshall Denny <MarshallDenny@...>
 

I will have a look at FX.25.

But, with the flexibility that the UDR will give us.  Lets keep all good ideas on the table until we have a good reason to remove it.  

The potential of FEC is not will known in the ham community.

For example, compare the potential for operating in noisy conditions between psk31 and olivia.  
Olivia will operate below the noise floor.
I have worked Olivia on 80m with thunderstorms in the region with 50 over S9 static crashes with 100% copy.

If well done, this could allow very poor signals to get through at low speed.
And, also allow 56k packet under conditions that would not work otherwise.

Respectfully,
Marshall
AI4CM 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 4:18 AM, zl2wrw <ross@...> wrote:
 



--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@..., "marshalldennyai4cm" wrote:

> Testing with variable levels of FEC added to an otherwise standard ax.25 protocol.

That sounds very much like the FX.25 protocol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FX.25_Forward_Error_Correction

It's even backwards compatable with plain old non-FEC AX.25 equipment. Though it does not rectify some of the other historical defects of the AX.25 protocol that are due to the adapting of wireline X.25 to a wireless physical layer...

73 ZL2WRW
Ross Whenmouth




--
Respectfully,
W. Marshall Denny II
Software Development Engineer
206 734 9242 cell

For if you altogether hold your peace at this time,
then shall relief and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place;
but you and your father's house shall be destroyed:
and who knows whether you are come to the kingdom for such a time as this?  Esther 4:14 KJV


Re: Forward error correction - experiment

"k7udr" <bhhoyer@...>
 

The problem with FX.25 is that in order to be backwards compatible they bundle the FEC bits at the end of the packet. As no-one to my knowledge has actually deployed FX25, I prefer a clean sheet approach so we can look at not only FEC, but other choices of modulation and encoding as well.

Backwards compatibility can be assured by connecting on either AX25 or D-STAR, then negotiating upwards amongst capable radios.

After we have the UDR shipping, we'll be starting a new independent group, sponsored by TAPR, to investigate open methodologies for advancing amateur radio.

Exciting times ahead!
Bryan K7UDR

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com, "zl2wrw" <ross@...> wrote:



--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com, "marshalldennyai4cm" <MarshallDenny@> wrote:

Testing with variable levels of FEC added to an otherwise standard ax.25 protocol.

That sounds very much like the FX.25 protocol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FX.25_Forward_Error_Correction

It's even backwards compatable with plain old non-FEC AX.25 equipment. Though it does not rectify some of the other historical defects of the AX.25 protocol that are due to the adapting of wireline X.25 to a wireless physical layer...


73 ZL2WRW
Ross Whenmouth


Re: Forward error correction - experiment

"zl2wrw" <ross@...>
 

--- In UniversalDigitalRadio@yahoogroups.com, "marshalldennyai4cm" <MarshallDenny@...> wrote:

Testing with variable levels of FEC added to an otherwise standard ax.25 protocol.

That sounds very much like the FX.25 protocol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FX.25_Forward_Error_Correction

It's even backwards compatable with plain old non-FEC AX.25 equipment. Though it does not rectify some of the other historical defects of the AX.25 protocol that are due to the adapting of wireline X.25 to a wireless physical layer...


73 ZL2WRW
Ross Whenmouth

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