People can carry their torch all they want -- the point is, NW Digital Radio is not the inventor of D-STAR or AMBE and this is just unwarranted noise here.  I don't want people to unsubscribe from this list, which is a communication vehicle for NW Digital Radio company and their users, for too much noise.

As pointed out, all sorts of proprietary technology is in every modern piece of equipment we use.  Remember, even FM and SSB were patented (proprietary technology).

If people want to continue this debate, please move it to an appropriate list.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Steve McGrane <temporarilyoffline@...> wrote:

Ultimately, somebody has to speak to the unpopular things.  Sure, its
a lot of noise, but at the end of the day, the rules say something to
the effect of "no coded transmissions" and "no pecuniary interest".

I "get" what he's saying/trying to do and I appreciate that somebody
is carrying the torch.

How many of us have an iPad 1 that is just about completely useless
these days?  Imagine if it was an open platform and you could load a
functional OS on it and keep on browsing the internet and playing
videos? (Without being labeled a criminal)

I have enough dead apple gear sitting on shelves that I won't buy
anymore of it, even if I have to pay extra to get something from
somebody else.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 12:24 PM, Tony <w7efs@...> wrote:
> It appeared to me that someone had an AMBE "chip" on their shoulder, and it
> isn't you, Bob.
>

--

---

John D. Hays
Director

Ultimately, somebody has to speak to the unpopular things.  Sure, its
a lot of noise, but at the end of the day, the rules say something to
the effect of "no coded transmissions" and "no pecuniary interest".

I "get" what he's saying/trying to do and I appreciate that somebody
is carrying the torch.

How many of us have an iPad 1 that is just about completely useless
these days?  Imagine if it was an open platform and you could load a
functional OS on it and keep on browsing the internet and playing
videos? (Without being labeled a criminal)

I have enough dead apple gear sitting on shelves that I won't buy
anymore of it, even if I have to pay extra to get something from
somebody else.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 12:24 PM, Tony <w7efs@...> wrote:
> It appeared to me that someone had an AMBE "chip" on their shoulder, and it
> isn't you, Bob.
>

--

---

John D. Hays
Director

I suspect he's thinking of the Gateway side of things, which is isn't documented.

Matthew Pitts

N8OHU

On 4/29/2018 8:42 PM, John D Hays - K7VE wrote:

Ken, I don't know what you are talking about.  The physical layer is the radio circuit and applied modulation, on D-STAR that is GMSK.  

On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 5:30 PM, Kenneth Hendrickson via Groups.Io <dsp_stap@...> wrote:

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 4/29/18, John D Hays - K7VE <john@...> wrote:
> The protocols are
> published, the latest revision is in Japanese, but it is
> published and has been for years.
> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/D-STAR.pdf

Nope.

Still *NOTHING* about the physical layer.
Therefore, NOT fully published.

Therefore, NOT open.  NOT free (as in freedom).
Still CLOSED and PROPRIETARY.

Still NOT in the spirit of amateur radio.

73,
Ken N8KH

PS  When there are "reverse engineering" attempts published on the Internet, you KNOW that it is not fully open.  You don't have to reverse engineer an open protocol, because it is fully described in published documents.  No such documents exist for D-STAR.  Such reverse engineering attempts DO exist.

--

---

John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA

K7VE

   

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 4/29/18, John D Hays - K7VE <john@...> wrote:
> The protocols are
> published, the latest revision is in Japanese, but it is
> published and has been for years.
> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/D-STAR.pdf

Nope.

Still *NOTHING* about the physical layer.
Therefore, NOT fully published.

Therefore, NOT open.  NOT free (as in freedom).
Still CLOSED and PROPRIETARY.

Still NOT in the spirit of amateur radio.

73,
Ken N8KH

PS  When there are "reverse engineering" attempts published on the Internet, you KNOW that it is not fully open.  You don't have to reverse engineer an open protocol, because it is fully described in published documents.  No such documents exist for D-STAR.  Such reverse engineering attempts DO exist.

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 4/28/18, Woodrick, Ed <ewoodrick@...> wrote:
> D-STAR AT DAYTON HAMVENTION® 2018

Has anybody fully published *EVERYTHING* about the D-STAR protocols, including the physical layer?

To my knowledge, it has still not yet been published.

So it is still NOT open.  It is still NOT free.  It is still CLOSED AND PROPRIETARY.

That's not in the spirit of ham radio.

73,
Ken N8KH

I am new to using a thumb dv with BlueDV software.  I have the thumb dv connecting and working with DCS and XRF reflectors only.  Have confirmed QSO's.  I can only hear on REF reflectors.  when I appear to be transmitting I am not.  I have updated all of the host files.  I am at a loss.  I am using Windows 10 64 bit.   Any thoughts on why I can not transmit to any of the REF reflectors?

thanks
Joe - K4JKB

I am new to using a thumb dv with BlueDV software.  I have the thumb dv connecting and working with DCS and XRF reflectors only.  Have confirmed QSO's.  I can only hear on REF reflectors.  when I appear to be transmitting I am not.  I have updated all of the host files.  I am at a loss.  I am using Windows 10 64 bit.   Any thoughts on why I can not transmit to any of the REF reflectors?

thanks
Joe - K4JKB