Date   

Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

K6ST Barry Bettman <k6st@...>
 

Looks like there is a lot of technical discussion about the AMBE chip on this yahoogroup. .  Any plans for access on DMR yet on the NWdigital DVthumb?  Thanks.


Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

Cath,

My reading of the Yaesu spec is that type 2 adds some FEC bits, external to the AMBE+2 vocoder.  My suspicion is that they are applying those addition FEC bits to the AMBE sample but having the AMBE-3000 chip only handle the 'standard' HR packet.  I'll look into it further.

Also are you using the RATET commands to set the register values or individually setting them using RATEP? (Page 64 of the 3000F manual)


On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 12:46 AM, beaupeppybrandypip@... [UniversalDigitalRadio] <UniversalDigitalRadio@...> wrote:
 

ah !

Thank you John. Fresh samples !

The DN file is V/D type 2.
I've just looked at the DR-1X manual and see that Yaesu don't give you the option to specify which of the two HR modes (V/D type 1 or V/D type 2) it uses, which is a shame.

I can decode the DN voice OK by feeding the extracted voice channel bits to the software mbelib AMBE decoder, but when I feed them to the hardware AMBE-3000 chip it doesn't decode it correctly still (comes back garbled).

So, either Yaesu are using a none standard AMBE-3000 chip, or I've still got something wrong, or they have chosen not to document a required step before sending the voice channel bits to the AMBE-3000 chip.

Considering that encrypted/hidden voice or data transfers are forbidden on the ham bands, I'm surprised the radio manufactures are getting away with not making every protocol detail freely availabe (such as what happened with ICOM/DSTAR).

Anyway, I shall keep at it, because I can't yet rule out that I'm forgetting something or have got something slightly wrong.

For Fusion V/D mode type 2 (a HR mode), I'm setting the AMBE-3000 chip to a custom rate using the these parameters listed in the chip data sheet ..

Total rate    Speech rate   FEC rate   RCW0    RCW1    RCW2    RCW3    RCW4    RCW5
   2450           2450             0           0x0431   0x0754   0x0000   0x0000   0x0000   0x7031

And for Fusion FR mode I'm using ..

Total rate    Speech rate   FEC rate   RCW0    RCW1    RCW2    RCW3    RCW4    RCW5
   7200           4400           2800        0x0458   0x0986   0x8020   0x0000   0x0000   0x7390




--


John D. Hays
K7VE

PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  


Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

beaupeppybrandypip@...
 

ah !

Thank you John. Fresh samples !

The DN file is V/D type 2.
I've just looked at the DR-1X manual and see that Yaesu don't give you the option to specify which of the two HR modes (V/D type 1 or V/D type 2) it uses, which is a shame.

I can decode the DN voice OK by feeding the extracted voice channel bits to the software mbelib AMBE decoder, but when I feed them to the hardware AMBE-3000 chip it doesn't decode it correctly still (comes back garbled).

So, either Yaesu are using a none standard AMBE-3000 chip, or I've still got something wrong, or they have chosen not to document a required step before sending the voice channel bits to the AMBE-3000 chip.

Considering that encrypted/hidden voice or data transfers are forbidden on the ham bands, I'm surprised the radio manufactures are getting away with not making every protocol detail freely availabe (such as what happened with ICOM/DSTAR).

Anyway, I shall keep at it, because I can't yet rule out that I'm forgetting something or have got something slightly wrong.

For Fusion V/D mode type 2 (a HR mode), I'm setting the AMBE-3000 chip to a custom rate using the these parameters listed in the chip data sheet ..

Total rate    Speech rate   FEC rate   RCW0    RCW1    RCW2    RCW3    RCW4    RCW5
   2450           2450             0           0x0431   0x0754   0x0000   0x0000   0x0000   0x7031

And for Fusion FR mode I'm using ..

Total rate    Speech rate   FEC rate   RCW0    RCW1    RCW2    RCW3    RCW4    RCW5
   7200           4400           2800        0x0458   0x0986   0x8020   0x0000   0x0000   0x7390


Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

Cath,

I have put some capture files in the Files -> DR-1X section of this group for you to use as samples.


On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 10:10 AM, beaupeppybrandypip@... [UniversalDigitalRadio] <UniversalDigitalRadio@...> wrote:
 


What I'm hoping, is that Yaesu aren't using the AMBE-3000F-P25 or AMBE-3000F-SAT chips. If they are, then that would explain a couple of things.

Those two other variants of the AMBE-3000 chip both provide two different variants on the exact same channel bit rates (2450 and 7200) that Yaesu Fusion use (V/D type 2 and Voice FR).

I can't yet test Fusion V/D type 1 mode with the ThumbDV as I don't have any uncompressed recorded WAV files containing the raw C4FM. And our local Fusion repeater won't be installed and working till close to christmas time.




--


John D. Hays
K7VE

PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  


Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

beaupeppybrandypip@...
 

None of the those WAV recordings seem to exists anymore John :(

Either that or the dropbox site is blocked by my ISP.


Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 10:10 AM, beaupeppybrandypip@... [UniversalDigitalRadio] <UniversalDigitalRadio@...> wrote:
 


What I'm hoping, is that Yaesu aren't using the AMBE-3000F-P25 or AMBE-3000F-SAT chips. If they are, then that would explain a couple of things.

Those two other variants of the AMBE-3000 chip both provide two different variants on the exact same channel bit rates (2450 and 7200) that Yaesu Fusion use (V/D type 2 and Voice FR).

I can't yet test Fusion V/D type 1 mode with the ThumbDV as I don't have any uncompressed recorded WAV files containing the raw C4FM. And our local Fusion repeater won't be installed and working till close to christmas time.




--


John D. Hays
K7VE

PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  


Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

beaupeppybrandypip@...
 


What I'm hoping, is that Yaesu aren't using the AMBE-3000F-P25 or AMBE-3000F-SAT chips. If they are, then that would explain a couple of things.

Those two other variants of the AMBE-3000 chip both provide two different variants on the exact same channel bit rates (2450 and 7200) that Yaesu Fusion use (V/D type 2 and Voice FR).

I can't yet test Fusion V/D type 1 mode with the ThumbDV as I don't have any uncompressed recorded WAV files containing the raw C4FM. And our local Fusion repeater won't be installed and working till close to christmas time.


Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

beaupeppybrandypip@...
 


Hi John

The yaesu document the one I'm using is this one (includes the V/D tyoe 2 mode) ..

https://www.yaesu.com/downloadFile.cfm?FileID=8237&FileCatID=263&FileName=Yaesu_Amateur%20Radio%20Digital%20Specs_1V01_EN-GB.pdf&FileContentType=application%2Fpdf

Yes EVERY time I send a packet to the AMBE chip (ANY packet type), I wait for the proper reply, If there is no reply (or a wrong/unexpected one) I stop there and then because it just means an error has occured.
The reply it comes back with to sending it the channel bits (the encoded audio bits extracted from C4FM packets) is the audio PCM samples, and visa versa.

I have noticed a couple of errors (one very bad one) in DVSI's AMBE-3000 PDF file(s), which did throw me for a few minutes.


Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

Hi Cath,

I have not seen documentation on V/D mode 2.  Perhaps I missed it somewhere.

I am aware that it's important that you pace the packet stream to/from the AMBE3000 chip by waiting for the AMBE packet when sending in the PCM packet and vice versa.



On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 7:02 PM, beaupeppybrandypip@... [UniversalDigitalRadio] <UniversalDigitalRadio@...> wrote:
 

Hello John

Thank you for your reply :)

Yes 33 is the one I see it as being as well John.

Well, their are 3 different rates Yaesu use ..

 3600 .. 2450 voice .. 1150 fec .. V/D mode 1 .. index 33
 2450 .. 2450 voice ..      0 fec ...V/D mode 2 .. index 34
 7200 .. 4400 voice .. 2800 fec ..  FR mode ......index 59
    all AMBE+2

The index rate numbers are the only ones I can see them as being.
Am hoping it's the standard AMBE-3000R chip they use, especially as they have freely
published the protocol specifications they use (unlike DSTAR).

I am decoding and extracting all the data from the raw C4FM fusion frames that I currently have at hand, can decode/decompress the Fusion 2450 V/D type 2 mode voice using the software mbelib just fine, but am having trouble getting the AMBE-3000R chip to decode the channel bits back into audio samples. The chip gives me the audio samples back OK, just not in any kind of human speech language known to me lol.

If use the AMBE chip (the ThumbDV) to encode/compress speech, it then decodes it as expected. So all's fine there (using any rate setting).

I'll keep at it though until I find out exactly whats going on.




--


John D. Hays
K7VE

PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  


Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

beaupeppybrandypip@...
 

Hello John

Thank you for your reply :)

Yes 33 is the one I see it as being as well John.

Well, their are 3 different rates Yaesu use ..

 3600 .. 2450 voice .. 1150 fec .. V/D mode 1 .. index 33
 2450 .. 2450 voice ..      0 fec ...V/D mode 2 .. index 34
 7200 .. 4400 voice .. 2800 fec ..  FR mode ......index 59
    all AMBE+2

The index rate numbers are the only ones I can see them as being.
Am hoping it's the standard AMBE-3000R chip they use, especially as they have freely
published the protocol specifications they use (unlike DSTAR).

I am decoding and extracting all the data from the raw C4FM fusion frames that I currently have at hand, can decode/decompress the Fusion 2450 V/D type 2 mode voice using the software mbelib just fine, but am having trouble getting the AMBE-3000R chip to decode the channel bits back into audio samples. The chip gives me the audio samples back OK, just not in any kind of human speech language known to me lol.

If use the AMBE chip (the ThumbDV) to encode/compress speech, it then decodes it as expected. So all's fine there (using any rate setting).

I'll keep at it though until I find out exactly whats going on.


Re: Yaesu AMBE chip

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

Cath,

I don't know the chip (they may have done a software license deal). however it is AMBE+2 HR and FR ... the AMBE-3000 chips support this HR and it is index number 33 on page 83 at http://www.dvsinc.com/manuals/AMBE-3000R_manual.pdf  FR should be index number 59 

Based on the Fusion Specification document.



On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 12:32 PM, beaupeppybrandypip@... [UniversalDigitalRadio] <UniversalDigitalRadio@...> wrote:
 

Hello

Does anyone out there know exactly which AMBE chip is used in the Yaesu Fusion radios ?


I'm assuming it's one of the AMBE-3000 chips, but would like to know for sure if possible.


Thanks





--


John D. Hays
K7VE

PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  


Yaesu AMBE chip

beaupeppybrandypip@...
 

Hello

Does anyone out there know exactly which AMBE chip is used in the Yaesu Fusion radios ?


I'm assuming it's one of the AMBE-3000 chips, but would like to know for sure if possible.


Thanks



Re: DV3000 questions

beaupeppybrandypip@...
 

Good answer John.

I've done some software over the past 2 days for fusion coding/decoding, raw C4FM <> raw audio samples. IT's currently in pure software form, but it's in need of an AMBE+2 chip now. It's been a choice between buying 12 chips from DVSI and doing a basic PCB for them, or using a ThumbDV .. have decided to use a ThumbDV.

Been debating whether to release it as open source or not. Have decided to release it for the benefit of the ham community, especially since Yaesu have been good enough to release the detailed specifications of their C4FM usage.

Just trying to get the permission of a couple of people who's useful routines I've used in the process. Got the go ahead from Phil Karn so no problem there !


Re: DV3000 questions

"John D. Hays" <john@...>
 

I don't know about others, but I write free open source software for the betterment of the community and to test out ideas.  I just released a simple, real time, self configuring dashboard for ircDDBGateway (it can be downloaded from the files section of that group  -- https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ircDDBGateway/conversations/messages/11867) -- the license for it allows anyone to use it for any purpose with no warranty.  It comes from many days of work and testing, as well as 40+ years of programming and systems experience -- I don't expect a dime from it, but that is my choice. 

Some people choose to do closed software. Some choose to do open software.  Some choose to do software for their own use.  All of those are the choice of the developer and they are welcome to make those choices.

Many of us benefit from open software,  most of the Internet runs on open software, e.g. Apache and Linux and yes people make money using that software.  The authors sometimes provide the free open source software for the recognition (which can lead to a paying jobs) or simply to provide an altruistic or educational purpose.

If one does not want their software used by others, then license it using a commercial license, whether open or closed source.

--


John D. Hays
K7VE

PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
  


Re: DV3000 questions

Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@...>
 

What/Where is our the motivation to hand over our source code when we get nothing nothing in return from the money makers ?

Anybody who has to ask that question would be getting paid just what
their software is worth... I doubt anybody writing software - free or
paid and supported - would ask that.

Bill


Re: DV3000 questions

beaupeppybrandypip@...
 

KB9MWR :)

What/Where is our the motivation to hand over our source code when we get nothing nothing in return from the money makers ?


Re: any news yet on mac software for the thumbdv

Les Norton <gm4jnw@...>
 

Thanks guys, I’m using parallels on my mac at the moment and it works but windows is not my favourite system!
Thats great news and will look forward to the release.

Thanks in advance Jeremy for all your hard work too and the beta testers for their hard work too.

Cheers
Les G4JNW


On 27 Oct 2015, at 23:23, richark@... [UniversalDigitalRadio] <UniversalDigitalRadio@...> wrote:

As one of the lucky Buster beta testers, I can tell you it will be worth the wait.....


73,
Kenny, KU7M



Re: any news yet on mac software for the thumbdv

richark@...
 

As one of the lucky Buster beta testers, I can tell you it will be worth the wait.....

73,
Kenny, KU7M


Re: any news yet on mac software for the thumbdv

mcdermj@...
 

Bryan will probably roll his eyes since he's heard this before, and I'll probably be forced to light myself on fire at some point in time as well, but...

I am the author of Buster, the aforementioned Mac D-STAR reflector client that will support the ThumbDV and the PiDV.  Buster is a native (Objective C) Mac, ground-up implementation of a reflector client with an emphasis on simplicity and robustness.  It will be open sourced on GitHub upon its 1.0 release and will be officially distributed via the Mac App Store.  While I am affiliated with NWDR and they have generously supported Buster's development, this is a personal project of mine and it will not be officially supported through NWDR any more than any of the other D-STAR reflector clients.

A week or so ago I got Buster to the point where I believe it is "feature complete" for the 1.0 release.  That being said, there are still some bugs and caveats that need to be stamped out before it's ready to put into the buzzsaw that is the App Store approval process.  Since this is not my day job and I do this in my spare time, this has taken a bit more time than I would like.  I'm hoping to have it into iTunes Connect by the end of the month and we'll see how long it takes Apple to approve it after that.

I think we have enough testers at this point in time, so I won't be adding any more.  All I can ask is that you be patient and hopefully I'll have something for you soon.

I am happy to answer questions that folks have regarding Buster as I have time.

--
Jeremy McDermond - NH6Z
nh6z@...


Re: Mac OS Users

gm4jnw@...
 

Just spotted this John 
I was hoping for news on the Mac os version as i have a thumb dv am certainly willing to beta test it but only have the thumb dv
maybe your near to releasing it?

My email address in general use is:

gm4jnw@...

Cheers
Les
G4JNW

1481 - 1500 of 2576