Re: Draws and IC-7000 #draws #ic7000 #minidin6


Jack Spitznagel
 

Basil,
A quick follow up note. The setalsa-ft817.sh script does bring it close for
the IC-7000, working fine for 1200b TX and RX for direwolf/xastir, although
have not checked to see where the deviation wound up yet. However, with
fldigi the settings still result in overdrive and high ALC readings. The
alsa-show.sh script gave the readings as you suggested it should below.
Reducing the LO Drive incrementally to -6.0dB did nothing except increase
noise on the trace. Reducing PCM slightly to -15.0dB improved ALC some, but
any additional reduction pushed it right into the symptoms of the noise
threshold/ALC interaction I spoke of in an earlier post.

Many thanks for your generous help. Hope to return the favor by "elmering"
new DRAWS users when you put DRAWS in general release.

You guys will really need help then! Our pain is their gain...

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io <udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io> On
Behalf Of Jack Spitznagel
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 23:37
To: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [udrc] Draws and IC-7000 #draws #ic7000 #miniDIN6

Basil,

I do not have the IC-7000 9600 mode turned on now, 1200 or less only.
I hope to do so in the future for high speed packet, after the HF fldigi and
wsjt-x transmit issues are solved.
Eventually I will want to be able to configure it as a D-Star DV HotSpot and
to use on HF with Free DV/D-Star. I have a NW Digital AMBE3000 dongle
waiting for that use.

So at present, the apps I want to be able to run are 1200 packet and HF
digital (obviously not at the same time) - this will be a field portable
unit, so needs to be a bit of a swiss army knife when I have it working the
way I would like. I think Julian is shooting for a similar goal. I am not a
set it and forget it operator...

To your question regarding the receive input - I was not intentionally using
the discriminator input. As I commented before, *both packet and fldigi
receive are working, so you have me a bit puzzled*...

For the functions of IN1 vs IN2, I misunderstood them to be the opposite.
I
was obviously confused about which was for what because I was not aware
of/had not seen either Annaliese's description of the CODEC or the
"App-Notes-for Radios" document when I modified the ALSA settings for the
7000. Those documents had not been uploaded to the Wiki yet and I did not
catch the fact that the assignment was reversed until you and Annaliese
pointed it out. I forgot I configured it the way I did (glad I had some
notes).

The script I started with (originally called soundset.sh or something like
it) was in an email from before the holidays. It fed the amixer command with
a string of subcommands as shown:
------------------------
amixer -c udrc -s << EOF
# Set input and output levels to 0dB
sset 'ADC Level' -2.0dB
sset 'LO Driver Gain' 0dB
sset 'PCM' 0.0dB

# Turn on AFOUT
sset 'CM_L to Left Mixer Negative Resistor' '10 kOhm'
sset 'IN1_L to Left Mixer Positive Resistor' '10 kOhm'

# Turn on DISCOUT
sset 'CM_R to Right Mixer Negative Resistor' '10 kOhm'
sset 'IN1_R to Right Mixer Positive Resistor' '10 kOhm'

# Turn off unnecessary pins
sset 'IN1_L to Right Mixer Negative Resistor' 'Off'
sset 'IN1_R to Left Mixer Positive Resistor' 'Off'
sset 'IN2_L to Left Mixer Positive Resistor' 'Off'
sset 'IN2_L to Right Mixer Positive Resistor' 'Off'
sset 'IN2_R to Left Mixer Negative Resistor' 'Off'
sset 'IN2_R to Right Mixer Positive Resistor' 'Off'
sset 'IN3_L to Left Mixer Positive Resistor' 'Off'
sset 'IN3_L to Right Mixer Negative Resistor' 'Off'
sset 'IN3_R to Left Mixer Negative Resistor' 'Off'
sset 'IN3_R to Right Mixer Positive Resistor' 'Off'
------------------------
... and so on... at that point I had no idea what any of the settings were
for except PCM, LO Driver Gain, and ADC Level. Annaliese's document about
the CODEC was the first comprehensive description I have seen and I am still
trying to digest that.

I had things set the way you see below because I started with the script
above and commented out the two lines following the comment "# Turn on
DISCOUT" thinking that would disable DISCOUT- so maybe some of that stuff
from emails and earlier "how to's" should be retracted and "official" list
of authoritative documents made - I am sure the early stuff had errors in
it. This stuff has moved quickly and I have not focused on every thread on
the list so I likely have missed important pointers and announcements of
documentation along the way. Docs have moved from GIT Hub and email comments
like "you can use the UDRC documents in the Wiki" to a growing family of
documents in the Wiki. I still have to unlearn what defaults left port or
right port because of confusion regarding the UDRC2 from that period.

I will run the FT-817 script since it will get me pretty close to what I
think the 7000 will like... and solve the IN2 config issue. See what
happens, but that doesn't address the TX level adjustment issue.

KD4IZ
Jack Spitznagel
FM19oo



-----Original Message-----
From: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io <udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io> On
Behalf Of Basil Gunn
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 17:03
To: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [udrc] Draws and IC-7000 #draws #ic7000 #miniDIN6


I am interested to know why you are using the discriminator connection for
receive (IN1). For HF modes (AFSK) you should be using the AFOUT
connection(IN2) unless I am missing something regarding the IC-7000.
Are you running a vhf/uhf packet app or some HF app?
Could you tell me which data speed the IC-7000 is configured for? ie. is
9600 Mode turned on?

Check the App Notes for Radios wiki:
https://nw-digital-radio.groups.io/g/udrc/wiki/DRAWS%3A-App-Notes-for-Radi
os

ALSA settings:
Use IN1_L IN1_R for 9600 baud (DISCOUT)
Use IN2_L IN2_R for 1200 baud or less (AFOUT)

Also you will be using the latest version of alsa-show.sh if your output
looks something like this:

===== ALSA Controls for Radio Tansmit =====
LO Driver Gain L:[-2.00dB] R:[-2.00dB]
LO Playback CM [Full Chip CM]
PCM L:[-11.00dB] R:[-11.00dB]
DAC Playback PT L:[PTM_P3] R:[PTM_P3]

===== ALSA Controls for Radio Receive =====
ADC Level L:[-2.00dB] R:[-2.00dB]
IN1 L:[10 kOhm] R:[Off]
IN2 L:[Off] R:[Off]

/Basil

Jack Spitznagel <kd4iz@frawg.org> writes:

Basil,

Updated your scripts. Thank you.

Slipped my mind to include the alsa-show.sh output:
PCM L:[-11.00dB] R:[-11.00dB]
ADC Level L:[-2.00dB] R:[-2.00dB]
LO Driver Gain L:[-2.00dB] R:[-2.00dB]
IN1 L:[10 kOhm] R:[Off]
IN2 L:[Off] R:[Off]

These were determined for the lowest TX drive level that also showed
minimal noise with PTM-P1 set L channel. Quick and dirty lunchtime
observations.

I also did not tell you specifically that I did adjust the LO Drive up
all the way through its range 1st just to see what was going on.

1. With PCM set at -21.0dB (where I had it for PTM-P3), there was a
lot of the background noise through most of the entire range LO Drive
range.
2. With the PCM increased to 0dB it was "cleaner looking" but maxing
out ALC through the entire LO Drive range - couldn't get a drop in ALC
at
all.
3. Arbitrarily I picked -11.0dB as the halfway point. It got me where
you see above. Moving the LO Drive above 0dB increased the ALC, below
-2.0dB it stopped dropping the ALC, but the noise showed up. I left it
on
-2.0dB.

When I go back - I want to again start with:
Right channel levels "more completely turned off" (that might
eliminate a source of the noise from crossover?) Methodically step
through a range of LO Drive settings for each specific PCM setting
near the "sweet spot" for the IC-7000 Record what I am seeing in some
video clips if you think it would be helpful

Thanks for the info on the FT-817 - I will take a look now but
probably test them when you release Beta7.

KD4IZ
Jack Spitznagel
FM19oo





-----Original Message-----
From: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io
<udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Basil Gunn
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 14:42
To: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [udrc] Draws and IC-7000 #draws #ic7000 #miniDIN6

Jack,

Thank you for all the data, it is very much appreciated. I have a
request for when you give us one of the ALSA control settings that you
run alsa-show.sh instead so we get a better understanding of how other
controls are set as well.

To get the latest version of that script:
cd
cd n7nix
git pull
cd n7nix/bin
./alsa-show.sh

Also the LO Driver Gain (analog) control should be adjusted before the
PCM
(digital) control.

Since you mention the Yaesu FT-817 note that we have successfully
setup that radio with FLdigi & DRAWS. Reference these files:

bin/setalsa-ft817.sh
docs/RADIO_APP_NOTES.md

Thanks.

Jack Spitznagel <kd4iz@frawg.org> writes:

Hi Basil, Annaliese, and John,



@ Basil and Annaliese: Thanks for the PTM information. It made for an
interesting lunch break today. Here are a series of quick
observations using fldigi which I want to confirm. I will send you my
more complete observations when I can.



Exec Summary: Switching from PTM-P3 to PTM-P1 did not reduce the TX
audio level sufficiently to allow for clean audio tone and a
reduction of ALC reading on the IC-7000. It did do something
unexpected; the floor for appearance of the low level circuitry noise
actually went up!



Apparently there is "other stuff" getting into the TX audio output
circuit that comes along with setting the TX tone(s) to low output
levels. It appears that "noise" is keeping the ALC reading from going
much below "redline" and is also causing the ALC reading to pulse.
The noise appears/sounds to be random popping/sizzling along with a
higher amplitude ticking pulse.



I am going to refer to this as "circuit background noise" for lack of
the proper technical description. Please tell me what to call it if
that is incorrect. I plan to repeat this using a little more careful
method of transmitting tones generated by DRAWS. I will plan to send
a link to a short video clip of Spectrum Lab tracings with receiver
sound to show differences between the PTM-P1, P2, and P3 settings but
probably won't get to it until tomorrow.



My quick comparison of PTM alsamixer settings used:

fldigi/flrig as the DRAWS tone generation app into the IC-7000, USB
at 21.070MHz with LO Drive set at -0.0dB.

IC-7100 to receive with the attenuator on and the RF gain reduced to
50% to avoid overdriving the receiver front end. Output of the
IC-7100 sound device observed with Spectrum Lab 2.

Adjusting PCM (only) while observing rig ALC level along with
spectrum, waterfall, and amplitude on Spectrum Lab.



PTM-P3 (default) - shows lowest "circuit background noise" floor at
about -25.00dB or so, but when set at levels (-21.5dB or higher)
where the "background noise" disappears (per Spectrum Lab) - the
IC-7000 (and FT-817) input is overdriven when the tone is at cleanest
setting.
(So the S/N ratio is the highest?)



PTM-P2 reduces the audio level some but also appears to increase the
level where the "circuit background noise" appears (to around
-21.0Db)
- the
IC-7000 input is still overdriven when the tone is at cleanest
appearing setting.



PTM-P1 definitely reduces the TX audio level BUT changes the level at
which the background noise appears (about -18.0dB) - the IC-7000
input is still overdriven when the tone is at cleanest appearing
setting.
(but the S/N is
lowest?)



For all 3 of the settings, that means the ALC reading on the IC-7000
remains at about mid scale and the appearance of the "circuit
background
noise"
prevents me from reducing it any more. Obviously, the "circuit
background noise" is being transmitted... not optimal.



As a result, it appears it is not possible to get a clean signal AND
reduce the drive level using the controls to a point where the
IC-7000 is not using ALC to limit the input. The rig and DRAWS will
likely need an attenuator placed somewhere in the TX audio circuit
(AFIN).



Current app testing status has not changed.

1. DRAWS can be used to receive very well in all apps I have tested.

2. Can transmit from:

A. direwolf maybe over dev a little, but basically Xastir and YAAC
are solid into local digipeaters and gateways. I will need to redo
the DEV adjustment (when Beta 7 arrives).

B. fldigi is "working", I can QSO, but app is overdriving the rig
when TX tone is cleanest noted by test and by other ops.

C. wsjt-x only at very low levels, no QSO yet in FT8, but decoded
here on the bench by another radio/computer. I can't raise TX audio
levels with alsamixer high enough to get a significant power out
reading on the rig during FT8 transmission.



More to come. would appreciate knowing if I am on track with the
measuring methods and if this is useful data for you.



KD4IZ

Jack Spitznagel

FM19oo







-----Original Message-----
From: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io
<udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Basil Gunn
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 01:00
To: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [udrc] Draws and IC-7000 #draws #ic7000 #miniDIN6







Do I surmise correctly that the PTM control is not exposed in the
BETA 6
mixer driver?



The new ALSA controls will be in the BETA7 image which will be out in
the next day or 2. Or do the following:



Check the old version with

dpkg -l "udrc*"



apt-get update

apt-get upgrade



Check the new version:

dpkg -l "udrc*"



It should be 1.0.5



/Basil



If it is, where/how would I find it and under what subdevice name?
HNY and 73,
KD4IZ
Jack Spitznagel
FM19oo













--
J Spitznagel
Science River LLC
KD4IZ






--
J Spitznagel
Science River LLC
KD4IZ

Join udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.