FT891, FT817, Audio Levels, I/O Fail , and Documentation #draws #ft817 #hfmodes
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Julian OH8STN <julian@...>
Hello Operators
I've been trying for the better part of four days to get the Yaesu ft-891 and Yaesu ft-817 to work on HF digital modes, correctly with the DRAWS hat. Many of the answers to the questions operators are asking are scattered around the forums in dozens of different threads. This is beyond frustrating! I would suggest building a Wiki specifically for the DRAWS hat called "Getting started". That would solve my first problem which is documentation, and being forced to read through mostly irrelevant threads to find the jewels. I've already run the scripts to set the levels. I've disabled ax25 and direwolf. I changed the settings from the 9600 packet port to the data line in mentioned in John and Bryans thread. I've also read through Basils threads about troubleshooting. Most of those are direwolf ax.25relsted threads What I'm left with is a pretty horrific audio I/O problem. On transmit: When I transmit, I never get a clean signal. When I lower the levels I get some sort of oscillation. There is no sweet spot. it's either too much or too little. On the receipt side, even with the cables unplugged there's a 30 DB noise level emanating from the DRAWS hat. Signals are barely seen in the waterfall, and decoding is ridiculously poor. If I plug in my signalink, my miniproSC or even the USB audio interface attached to the wolphilink, it's no problem to get clean audio, and to start decoding stations I could barely see in the waterfall. I've done this with js8 call and fldigi, which both work perfectly with a signalink and zlp miniprosc on the DRAWS image. I could really use some troubleshooting help. 73 Julian oh8stn
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Julian, We have an FT-817nd en route to Bryan's lab for him to be able to duplicate the Yaesu setup. It should arrive later today. We will try to have an answer for you after he takes a look at it. Yes, we do test various modes, but we don't have every radio immediately available. I have an 817 myself, but I am antenna challenged at the moment. (My house is for sale, and all of my external antennas are taken down, except the garage repeater -- plus I have a very high noise level here, part of the reason I am planning to move.)
On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 7:42 AM Julian OH8STN <julian@...> wrote: Hello Operators --
John D. Hays Edmonds, WA K7VE   
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Julian OH8STN <julian@...>
Thanks John I know it's the weekend before Christmas, so I don't expect any miracles. Julian OH8STN www.oh8stn.org www.youtube.com/c/OH8STN
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Julian,
We feel your angst and are taking steps to fix the problems you are pointing out. Let me respond to one of your statements. I've also read through Basils threads about troubleshooting. Most ofI use direwolf & ax.25 to verify that the hardware & cables are working. My opinion is that there are more tools to qualify the hardware using this method than say one of the HF apps. If you have some insight into a better/easier way to qualify the hardware please let us know. Regarding documentation, I use github because that takes the least effort for me to capture things that might be useful. Yes it would be better to edit that & put it in a wiki. This will happen at some point but I guess the excuse is we are "resource limited" and responses and releases may slow down somewhat as we get more involved with the Holiday boogie. /Basil
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N6XDX
A better wiki would be helpful. Thank you to the admin team for working on these.
I have an FT-891 and was having issues until the beta 5 released. With the beta 5 and disabling ax.25 all went much smoother. Since I only operate HF portable, it has taken a little extra time to get things sorted to the point of being able to have qso's. As of today, I have successfully had FT8 and PSK31 qso's. As for JS8, it may just be an issue of when I operate. Most of all my setting are default to the beta 5 image. Since WSJTX, FLDIGI and JS8Call or show the receive signals around 30-40db, I haven't gone into alsamixer to change anything yet. The one thing I noticed about the FT891 is that the receive bandwidth sometimes defaults to 300hz. When I hear the noise level change, I change it back to 2400 or 3000. Todd / N6XDX
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Thank you Todd for your insights. We don't have an FT-891 in the collection.
Would mind running the command amixer -c udrc > udrc.mixer.txt and share the contents of udrc.mixer.txt with the group for reference?
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N6XDX
udrc.mixer.txt is below. Simple mixer control 'PCM',0 Capabilities: pvolume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Playback 0 - 175
Mono:
Front Left: Playback 127 [73%] [0.00dB]
Front Right: Playback 127 [73%] [0.00dB]
Simple mixer control 'Mic PGA',0
Capabilities: pswitch
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Mono:
Front Left: Playback [off]
Front Right: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'ADC Level',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 64
Front Left: 20 [31%] [-2.00dB]
Front Right: 20 [31%] [-2.00dB]
Simple mixer control 'ADCFGA Left Mute',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'ADCFGA Right Mute',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Attack Time',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 31
Front Left: 0 [0%]
Front Right: 0 [0%]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Decay Time',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 31
Front Left: 0 [0%]
Front Right: 0 [0%]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Gain Hysteresis',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 3
Front Left: 0 [0%]
Front Right: 0 [0%]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Hysteresis',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 3
Front Left: 0 [0%]
Front Right: 0 [0%]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Left',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Max PGA',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 127
Front Left: 0 [0%]
Front Right: 0 [0%]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Noise Debounce',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 31
Front Left: 0 [0%]
Front Right: 0 [0%]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Noise Threshold',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 31
Front Left: 0 [0%]
Front Right: 0 [0%]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Right',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Signal Debounce',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 15
Front Left: 0 [0%]
Front Right: 0 [0%]
Simple mixer control 'AGC Target Level',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 7
Front Left: 0 [0%]
Front Right: 0 [0%]
Simple mixer control 'CM_L to Left Mixer Negative Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: '10 kOhm'
Simple mixer control 'CM_R to Right Mixer Negative Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'HP DAC',0
Capabilities: pswitch
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Mono:
Front Left: Playback [on]
Front Right: Playback [on]
Simple mixer control 'HP Driver Gain',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 35
Front Left: 0 [0%] [-6.00dB]
Front Right: 0 [0%] [-6.00dB]
Simple mixer control 'HPL Output Mixer IN1_L',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'HPL Output Mixer L_DAC',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'HPR Output Mixer IN1_R',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'HPR Output Mixer R_DAC',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'IN1_L to Left Mixer Positive Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: '10 kOhm'
Simple mixer control 'IN1_L to Right Mixer Negative Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'IN1_R to Left Mixer Positive Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'IN1_R to Right Mixer Positive Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'IN2_L to Left Mixer Positive Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'IN2_L to Right Mixer Positive Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'IN2_R to Left Mixer Negative Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'IN2_R to Right Mixer Positive Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'IN3_L to Left Mixer Positive Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'IN3_L to Right Mixer Negative Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'IN3_R to Left Mixer Negative Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'IN3_R to Right Mixer Positive Resistor',0
Capabilities: enum
Items: 'Off' '10 kOhm' '20 kOhm' '40 kOhm'
Item0: 'Off'
Simple mixer control 'LO DAC',0
Capabilities: pswitch
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Mono:
Front Left: Playback [on]
Front Right: Playback [on]
Simple mixer control 'LO Driver Gain',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 35
Front Left: 6 [17%] [0.00dB]
Front Right: 6 [17%] [0.00dB]
Simple mixer control 'LOL Output Mixer L_DAC',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [on]
Simple mixer control 'LOR Output Mixer R_DAC',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [on]
Simple mixer control 'PGA Level',0
Capabilities: volume
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: 0 - 95
Front Left: 0 [0%] [0.00dB]
Front Right: 0 [0%] [0.00dB]
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N6XDX
Although this setup is working, I look forward to discovering an optimized setup for the FT891.
Todd / N6XDX
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Julian, Basil, All,
I found my CAT cable so was finally able to give DRAWS a try with fldigi and the FT-817. I have setting that works “OK” with the IC-7000 (yesterday’s email). I say “OK” because I can’t reduce the fldigi transmit audio to the point where the ALC is zero… without getting greatly increased noise from the DRAWS audio source:
PCM L:[-21.50dB], R:[-21.50dB] IN2 L: [Off], R:[Off]
With the IC-7000, I have been able to carry on several PSK31 QSO without anyone complaining about the signal being distorted or noisy. Still, running with any level of ALC reading is not good practice with digital modes. With “minor tweakage” this set should work for the FT-817, but does not exactly…
Interestingly, the ADC setting above does not work with the FT-817. Even if I raise the ADC level in increments all the way to the MAX with alsamixer, I still can’t get any received signals to show on the waterfall. The audio output of the two rigs is not all that different! It just does not make sense.
Now, since the miniDIN6 connections cause the speaker receive audio to mute in the FT-817, I can’t hear a signal either. Deaf and blind… and sorry, I don’t want to do surgery on a cable… unless there is no alternative. I can see the transmit trace on the waterfall. Lets get the receive waterfall working first!
What is this, a DRAWS issue or a settings issue in fldigi? Again existing documents are not very helpful.
In addition, the PCM + LO Driver Gain levels above also drive the FT-817 too hard, and just as with the IC-7000, I get the same issues as I reduce the PCM or the LO Driver Gain level, the transmitted audio becomes noisy and there is a “feedback like” harmonic that starts and overpowers the tone.
If I swap back in the IC-7000 and reconf flrig and fldigi for the substitution… I get a receive waterfall and I can transmit a signal – albeit an ALC clipped one.
I have spent enough time trying to get the FT-817 working up to the level of the IC-7000 for now. Maybe Basil will have some other suggestions for us to try.
Getting closer step by step.
73 – Jack – KD4IZ
From: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io <udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Julian OH8STN
Thanks John I know it's the weekend before Christmas, so I don't expect any miracles. Julian OH8STN -- J Spitznagel Science River LLC KD4IZ
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Brian Badger
This looks to me like you are disabling the audio out line.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
IN1 is the discriminator out IN2 is the audio out I would try with the FT817 with IN1 off and IN2 at 10mOhm.
On Dec 22, 2018, at 7:03 PM, Jack Spitznagel <kd4iz@...> wrote:
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Brian Badger
Phone spellcheck to the rescue. It should say IN2 10kOhm not 10mOhm.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
— Brian N0KZ
On Dec 22, 2018, at 9:18 PM, Brian Badger <brian@...> wrote:
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Tim Carroll <tcarroll4@...>
I myself have been doing the same.With KX2,FT891,FT817D.For now the draws is in the bottom drawer.Seems like I make one step forward then two steps backward’s.So were going to give her a break,been messing with it since I got.Just have to go with lap-top and sound card for now. 73’S MERRY Christmas
Tim KE4HGP
From: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io <udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of John D Hays - K7VE
Julian,
We have an FT-817nd en route to Bryan's lab for him to be able to duplicate the Yaesu setup. It should arrive later today. We will try to have an answer for you after he takes a look at it.
Yes, we do test various modes, but we don't have every radio immediately available.
I have an 817 myself, but I am antenna challenged at the moment. (My house is for sale, and all of my external antennas are taken down, except the garage repeater -- plus I have a very high noise level here, part of the reason I am planning to move.)
On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 7:42 AM Julian OH8STN <julian@...> wrote:
--
John D. Hays K7VE
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Todd,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Which mDin6 connector on the DRAWS board are you using? Left or Right. Thanks, /Basil N6XDX <n6xdx@outlook.com> writes:
Although this setup is working, I look forward to discovering an optimized setup for the FT891.
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Basil,
I am using the left (next to gps antenna connector), edit: short 26 sec video of how it is connected. Only change since then was adjusting outputs in WSJTX, JS8Call.and FLDIGI, resulting in 4 psk31 and 51 FT8 qso's since beta 5. https://twitter.com/N6XDX/status/1074481773642301440 Todd / N6XDX
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Bob Orrett <boborrett@...>
Regarding yaesu ft817. After much trial and error I am able to get my ft817 to work with ft8 and js8call. I disabled direwolf and .ax25 as described by Basil. I found I had to use the cable from my miniprosc interface to the left mini din 6 port and things worked with no change in audio settings. The draws supplied supplied cables gave feedback lines on the waterfall and muted the audio. I tried ferite beads to no avail. I believe the muting is caused by a constant 1.02v DC on pin 6 (squelch?). I believe my miniprosc cable does not use pin6. I also have ferite chokes on the minipro cable but I dont know if that is necessary. The bottom line is that it works. Took 3 or 4 solid evenings and some luck to get here. I agree with Julian that a simple "getting started" doc would have been a big (huge) help. The biggest frustration for me was that I had no real idea as to what to expect. I had issues with my first download of the beta5 image but I didnt know it. A lot of time wasted there. I arbitrarily tried a second install and things behaved very differently, correctly as it turned out. I am thinking that an early release without documentation was not such a good idea. Not for me anyway. I do however think that the draws hat is a good and a much needed concept and seems to work well. I suspect that the cables are an issue for a lot of users. Are they shielded? Best of the season to all. Bob Ve3obo
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Thanks Bob,
Yes our Cables route all six pins, as there are a few programs that need Squelch ie Echolink. We will look at making that a programmable option once I get an FT-817 on the bench and see if there is an alternate way to solve this. Happy Holidays to all! Bryan K7UDR
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Ed Bloom, KD9FRQ
Tim, KE4HGP, If you no longer want your DRAWS, I would like to purchase it. Respectfully, Ed, KD9FRQ
On 12/22/2018 10:56 PM, Tim Carroll
wrote:
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Julian OH8STN <julian@...>
Hi Basil
If there is a product used with HF and VHF comms, it would be a great idea to test against FLDigi, JS(Call, WSJT-X for HF Digital modes as well. Regarding the documentation, i'm trying to get a Getting Started with DRAWS Hat video done, but it is just not moving forward.If I can get it done, the notes can be used to start a Getting Started Wiki. Regarding github, What is simple for the customer seeking information, is better than what might be best for you. I get it, but someone with a DRAWS hat they can't use might not. I know from past experience, it will be much more difficult later on to generate documentation, than doing it inline. Even if it slows down the process. 73 Julian oh8stn
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Brian, Basil, All,
SO this is interesting information. I was using the scripts provided by Basil et al. and trying to get the bigger picture in my head first. I never consciously “set” these values. I will try to figure out how to set these without screwing up.
<soapbox cry for clarity> This is something that I classify as an important but “scattered factoid” – and a setting that needs to be “revealed”( in the religious sense). (Bring up the Holy Hand Grenade – then shalt thou count to three”…
Still trying to understand what all the hardware lines do and where they are used… obviously this is going to be handled differently than “run this script” when the final setup is documented… an GUI status/set tool would be ideal. “One from column A two from column B…” It must be down to a matrix of statements from which we can deduce:
“ IF I have an FT-8X7 on port 0 at 1200b and an IC-7000 on port 1 at 9600b, THEN set IN1 R and to [0] and IN2 L to 10Kohm – leave the others at [0]” or some such…
I feel like I am playing the original text screen version of “D & D”…
So Dungeonmaster: to recap the questions I am still confused by: Do I understand correctly that toggling IN1 enables 9600 b/discriminator independently on a per port basis? IN1/IN2 R is the same as setting the audio/discriminator state for Port 0? IN1/IN2 L is the same as setting the audio/discriminator state for Port 0?
Understanding this up front would probably have allowed me to self-solve several of the issues…
KD4IZ Jack Spitznagel FM19oo
From: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io <udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Badger
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 23:18 To: udrc@nw-digital-radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [udrc] FT891, FT817, Audio Levels, I/O Fail , and Documentation #draws
This looks to me like you are disabling the audio out line.
IN1 is the discriminator out IN2 is the audio out
I would try with the FT817 with IN1 off and IN2 at 10mOhm.
-- J Spitznagel Science River LLC KD4IZ
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Hi Jack.
You described perfectly one of the FT891/ftt817 symptoms. I can not reduce levels low enough to get the ALC to zero. I was able to have a QSO with FLDigi today, but was told my signal was a couple of hundred hz wide. :( Thanks for the support Jack. I love the potential for the DRAWS, and won't give up. 73 Julian oh8stn
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