Topics

Yaesu DR-2X with UDRC

Lot Marquez
 

Hi Guys, 
 Will the UDRC work the same way for a DR-2X?
We have the UDRC running the Dstar mode on our DR-1X Repeater and we now plan to upgrade to DR-2X. We would like to know if there would be any changes 
to setup or just plug and play. 

Thanks!
Lot / k6irf

VE3MIC
 

I don't think that we'll know the answer to that question until we see the technical service manual for the DR-2x

 

Correct



On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 5:49 PM, VE3MIC via Groups.Io <ve3mic@...> wrote:
I don't think that we'll know the answer to that question until we see the technical service manual for the DR-2x
_._,_._,_




--


John D. Hays
K7VE

PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223
   

 

Yaesu just hit my card for the DR-2X, so they will likely be shipping shortly.  I should have an answer shortly after it arrives.

 

I've had a DR-2X for a couple of days and at the current time my findings are not favorable for adding D-STAR to the DR-2X using the UDRC.

 

John,

That doesn't entirely surprise me with all the folks that were complaining about how other people were using it.

Matthew Pitts
N8OHU


On September 19, 2017 2:24:10 AM EDT, John D Hays - K7VE <john@...> wrote:
I've had a DR-2X for a couple of days and at the current time my findings are not favorable for adding D-STAR to the DR-2X using the UDRC.

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Paul, K3PGM
 

John:

Thanks for the update!

Do you know whether it's a fundamental limitation with the DR-2X, or more of a question of additional engineering on your end? I noticed from the manual that EXT ports 1 and 2 are interpreted differently on the DR-2X, which would certainly break things; are there other issues?

On a related note, we were about to send one of our DR-1X units with a UDRC-II attached back to Yaesu for an update; should we hold off because of potential issues, or are the problems you observed specific to the DR-2X?

Thanks!
Paul Milazzo, K3PGM

 



On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Paul, K3PGM <pgm0203@...> wrote:
John:

Thanks for the update!

Do you know whether it's a fundamental limitation with the DR-2X, or more of a question of additional engineering on your end?

At this point it is fundamental in that the pin that is supposed to provide discriminator audio doesn't decode -- but, I haven't had a chance to figure out if this is fundamental or can be overcome.
 
I noticed from the manual that EXT ports 1 and 2 are interpreted differently on the DR-2X, which would certainly break things; are there other issues?


Yes, I will have to address those with special cabling, but if I can't get clean discriminator all bets are off. I think we are OK on transmit, but won't really know until fully tested.

Also, there is the question of interplay with the LAN card (I have one installed, though I have tested with it disabled and enabled).
 
On a related note, we were about to send one of our DR-1X units with a UDRC-II attached back to Yaesu for an update; should we hold off because of potential issues, or are the problems you observed specific to the DR-2X?


I assume you would remove the UDRC-II before sending it in.  Is this just an update (eg. firmware) or in exchange for a DR-2X?  If just an update, it should be fine.  However, if going to DR-2X, I cannot recommend it at this time. 

--


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   

Randy Neals
 

This may be helpful to the thread/discussion.

From the Arcom controllers Mailing List.
Randy, W3RWN

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:[rc210] **Update on Yaesu DR2x
Date:Tue, 19 Sep 2017 11:23:12 -0700
From:Ken Arck ken@... [rc210] <rc210@...>
Reply-To:rc210@...
To:rc210@...


Hi All

It appears the DR2x we received the other day has some problems as no 
signals seem to be available on the back panel DB15 (used to 
interface with an external controller). There is no COS indication, 
no discriminator audio, no CTCSS decode indication, etc. As such we 
are unable to do any meaningful testing.

I have personally been on the phone this morning with the tech staff 
at Yaesu, including the appointed "expert" and we're attempting to 
work our way through this (although they have indicated they really 
have little on-hands experience with the DR2x and no service manual 
is yet available). They did indicate that if we (Arcom) wants to 
troubleshoot the problem as we can, they're fine with that and we 
will attempt to do so as we have time. Obviously we cannot answer at 
this point, whether the ADR works properly with the DR2x or not.

I also asked a customer who also has a DR2x to check for signals on 
the back panel connector and his appears to have COS but not 
discriminator audio so he likewise is dead in the water for now.

I'll let everyone know what progress we make on this (if any).

Ken

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"



------------------------------------
Posted by: Ken Arck <ken@...>
------------------------------------

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 3:00 PM, John D Hays - K7VE <john@...> wrote:


On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Paul, K3PGM <pgm0203@...> wrote:
John:

Thanks for the update!

Do you know whether it's a fundamental limitation with the DR-2X, or more of a question of additional engineering on your end?

At this point it is fundamental in that the pin that is supposed to provide discriminator audio doesn't decode -- but, I haven't had a chance to figure out if this is fundamental or can be overcome.
 
I noticed from the manual that EXT ports 1 and 2 are interpreted differently on the DR-2X, which would certainly break things; are there other issues?


Yes, I will have to address those with special cabling, but if I can't get clean discriminator all bets are off. I think we are OK on transmit, but won't really know until fully tested.

Also, there is the question of interplay with the LAN card (I have one installed, though I have tested with it disabled and enabled).
 
On a related note, we were about to send one of our DR-1X units with a UDRC-II attached back to Yaesu for an update; should we hold off because of potential issues, or are the problems you observed specific to the DR-2X?


I assume you would remove the UDRC-II before sending it in.  Is this just an update (eg. firmware) or in exchange for a DR-2X?  If just an update, it should be fine.  However, if going to DR-2X, I cannot recommend it at this time. 

--


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   

 

Thanks Randy.

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Randy Neals <randy@...> wrote:
This may be helpful to the thread/discussion.

From the Arcom controllers Mailing List.
Randy, W3RWN

-


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   

 

ARCOM's notes are showing even more troubling problems with DR-2X interface port.  Hopefully, it will be resolved, but for now it means no UDRC capability (but it applies to any external controller).

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 5:09 PM, John D Hays - K7VE <john@...> wrote:
Thanks Randy.

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Randy Neals <randy@...> wrote:
This may be helpful to the thread/discussion.

From the Arcom controllers Mailing List.
Randy, W3RWN

-


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   




--


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   

Randy Neals
 

It might be helpful/useful for someone on this list to reach out to the the Arcom folks and collaborate re findings. As I don't have a DR2X, I can't speak authoritatively, but I do think some collaboration would help to put coordinated back pressure on Yaesu US to "Get their act together".

I would have expected Yaesu to work with Repeater Controller manufacturers and have Beta Tested the DR2X like they did with the DR1X and SCOM. 

They don't have manuals, so we can't determine what the intended mode of operation is for the DR2X. And without knowing how it's supposed to work, we can't really file a bug report - maybe it's intended to work that way.


My own approach...

I'm using Icom FR-5000/FR-6000 commercial repeaters as my amateur repeaters.
I'm currently studying/planning how to interface a UDRC-II using either the DB-25 on the back, or if that lacks the signals I need, the UC FR5000 dPMR/IDAS networking card slot on the back of the repeater.

A really awesome outcome would be a plug-in card that slides into this repeater with a Raspberry Pi and UDRC-II integrated, but that would be challenging to produce in small volume.

eg. Further explanation what I'm talking about.

DB-25 Reference
http://www.nxdnradio.com/images/pdf/Icom/FR5000_DB-25_Acc_Pinouts.pdf

UC FR5000 dPMR/IDAS Ethernet controller card.
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/UC-FR5000_dPMR_0.pdf

FR5000/FR6000 Repeater
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/systems/IDAS/fr5000_fr6000/default.aspx

Randy, W3RWN



On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 5:14 PM, John D Hays - K7VE <john@...> wrote:
ARCOM's notes are showing even more troubling problems with DR-2X interface port.  Hopefully, it will be resolved, but for now it means no UDRC capability (but it applies to any external controller).

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 5:09 PM, John D Hays - K7VE <john@...> wrote:
Thanks Randy.

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Randy Neals <randy@...> wrote:
This may be helpful to the thread/discussion.

From the Arcom controllers Mailing List.
Randy, W3RWN

-


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   




--


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   

Randy Neals
 

Further updated from the Arcom list.


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:[rc210] **Further update on Yaesu DR2x
Date:Tue, 19 Sep 2017 15:43:42 -0700
From:Ken Arck ken@... [rc210] <rc210@...>
Reply-To:rc210@...
To:rc210@...


Well....after repairing the DR2x (had an internal connector that 
wasn't seated all the way), we found other (and bigger) issues.

The bigger problem seems to be the lack of discriminator audio out - 
as it turns out, Yaesu changed the firmware so now BOTH RX audio 
outputs (discriminator on pin 8 and de-emphasized on pin 9) are now 
gated by the DR2x's internal CTCSS/DCS decoder. That is to say that 
if you have the repeater set to either CTCSS or DCS, no audio is 
delivered externally unless the input signal has the proper 
tone/code. This is a huge problem (in the DR1x, audio was available 
regardless).

Another issue is that the logic used to select AMS/FM/C4FM on the 
back panel DB15 is different than the DR1x, therefore the ADR will 
NOT work with the DR2x without changes to the programming of the 
ADR's CPU. In fact if one goes by the DR2x manual, it is not even 
possible to force the repeater into analog mode at all anymore but we 
are experimenting with that. It will do AMS and output what it 
receives however (analog > analog, analog > C4FM, C4FM > C4FM)

Back to ye olde drawing board.....

Ken



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"



------------------------------------
Posted by: Ken Arck <ken@...>
------------------------------------

--------------

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:[rc210] **Update on Yaesu DR2x
Date:Tue, 19 Sep 2017 11:23:12 -0700
From:Ken Arck ken@... [rc210] <rc210@...>
Reply-To:rc210@...
To:rc210@...


Hi All

It appears the DR2x we received the other day has some problems as no 
signals seem to be available on the back panel DB15 (used to 
interface with an external controller). There is no COS indication, 
no discriminator audio, no CTCSS decode indication, etc. As such we 
are unable to do any meaningful testing.

I have personally been on the phone this morning with the tech staff 
at Yaesu, including the appointed "expert" and we're attempting to 
work our way through this (although they have indicated they really 
have little on-hands experience with the DR2x and no service manual 
is yet available). They did indicate that if we (Arcom) wants to 
troubleshoot the problem as we can, they're fine with that and we 
will attempt to do so as we have time. Obviously we cannot answer at 
this point, whether the ADR works properly with the DR2x or not.

I also asked a customer who also has a DR2x to check for signals on 
the back panel connector and his appears to have COS but not 
discriminator audio so he likewise is dead in the water for now.

I'll let everyone know what progress we make on this (if any).

Ken

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"



------------------------------------
Posted by: Ken Arck <ken@...>
------------------------------------

 

It looks like pins 8,9 and 19 plus gnd for  basic interface and you can power udrc and pi off the the 13.8 vdc out. (11)

On Sep 19, 2017 17:40, "Randy Neals" <randy@...> wrote:
It might be helpful/useful for someone on this list to reach out to the the Arcom folks and collaborate re findings. As I don't have a DR2X, I can't speak authoritatively, but I do think some collaboration would help to put coordinated back pressure on Yaesu US to "Get their act together".

I would have expected Yaesu to work with Repeater Controller manufacturers and have Beta Tested the DR2X like they did with the DR1X and SCOM. 

They don't have manuals, so we can't determine what the intended mode of operation is for the DR2X. And without knowing how it's supposed to work, we can't really file a bug report - maybe it's intended to work that way.


My own approach...

I'm using Icom FR-5000/FR-6000 commercial repeaters as my amateur repeaters.
I'm currently studying/planning how to interface a UDRC-II using either the DB-25 on the back, or if that lacks the signals I need, the UC FR5000 dPMR/IDAS networking card slot on the back of the repeater.

A really awesome outcome would be a plug-in card that slides into this repeater with a Raspberry Pi and UDRC-II integrated, but that would be challenging to produce in small volume.

eg. Further explanation what I'm talking about.

DB-25 Reference
http://www.nxdnradio.com/images/pdf/Icom/FR5000_DB-25_Acc_Pinouts.pdf

UC FR5000 dPMR/IDAS Ethernet controller card.
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/UC-FR5000_dPMR_0.pdf

FR5000/FR6000 Repeater
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/systems/IDAS/fr5000_fr6000/default.aspx

Randy, W3RWN



On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 5:14 PM, John D Hays - K7VE <john@...> wrote:
ARCOM's notes are showing even more troubling problems with DR-2X interface port.  Hopefully, it will be resolved, but for now it means no UDRC capability (but it applies to any external controller).

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 5:09 PM, John D Hays - K7VE <john@...> wrote:
Thanks Randy.

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Randy Neals <randy@...> wrote:
This may be helpful to the thread/discussion.

From the Arcom controllers Mailing List.
Randy, W3RWN

-


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   




--


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   


Paul, K3PGM
 

John:

Thanks for posting the detailed issues. Let's hope a future firmware update restores the discriminator audio.

Yes, I was talking about a firmware upgrade to an existing DR-1X, not a swap for a DR-2X.

Thanks,
Paul, K3PGM

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